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Cherylt View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10/June/2004 at 7:43am

Hello again!  It's been awhile since I've posted, everything has been going quite well.

Anyhow, to get to my story.  In May I decided to move from the apartment I was living in (something I was putting off for quite awhile).  Reason for moving: the man living above me as taken up for child molestation charges and I couldn't have my nieces come to visit with that literally above my head.  So I moved.

With that I found a place but a 30day notice was not given so I had to pay rent in two different places.  So I did and with that I found that there wouldn't be enough for my student loan payment with CBCL of $300.00 each month. 

For the last 9 mths I have found it extremely hard coming up with this amount to pay in.  So with that I said enough and went to scotiabank and did a little something about it.

So last night I got a call from this Mrs. Leca ( Leca pronouced Lesa),  she asked to speak with me and she told me your cheque bounced.  I said no it didn't I put a stop payment on it, the last three as a matter of fact.

She stopped.  I told her my reason for moving into another place and said that the payments will have to be lowered.  I also told her that I was waiting for someone to contact me since every month it seems as if each file is passed on to another operator (first I was dealing with this Andrew guy then I don't know who the other two were).  I also said that they were rude and unjust in certain situations and that I know that they do break the rules and threaten.  She said that in certain situations it calls for those measures.  I said no, don't lie to me.  I told her sure there are people out there that are sure to avoid paying a debt.  But operators there, your fellow employees, are threating those who cannot pay what you are requesting, or turning down payments that they offer to make.  And I know that you are NOT allowed to do this. 

I told her not to give me any false information, cause I will go above and beyond to find out the truth and that it's all at my fingertips.

She said that okay, you can pay in $100.00 per month. and that she will send me out a financial report (so I can fill it out).  I told her that it would be my first time getting one.  Then she told me that I should have gotten one before I was to start making payments..I said well that's news to me, because I didn't.

I also said that when I sent in post-dated cheques, i requested that I would have some type of payment history sent to me on a reqular basis.  I said, and that was a written request!  I didn't receive anything.  Also, I told her that I have other loans, other agents looking for money and they can't understand why I can't give it.  They won't believe that I'm making payments.  And, they don't understand why CBCL can't give me any information about my payment plan!  Because simply if it was the other crowd I was making payments to they would give me info to send to you!

She said well, we can't do that because of the privacy act.  (At this moment I was in my glee! I had my cake and ate it too!) I said, look I work in a clinic dealing with private and secure files all day!  I know all about the new changes with the privacy act, I went to a seminar and everything!  Don't lie to me!  And besides I'm the one that the file is about, I'm asking you to send it to me!  Not them!

She then said that she will send out to me a regular payment history, and financial report for me to fill out before sending other post-dated cheques in to CBCL for $100.00 per month!!

hip-hip hooray! Sorry it's so long!  But man, Just had to type it!

P.s. I did more talking than she did and when it was time to end the call SHE couldn't hang up quick enough!  I'm totally on a high power trip!  Ha ha! Thanks soooo much to this site.

 

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masy View Drop Down
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Joined: 13/June/2004
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote masy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13/June/2004 at 9:00pm

Congrats! I know what it is like to deal with these people so good for you!

I think many people don't know what their rights are when it comes to collection agencies.

I remember when I was being hounded by one and she wanted me to send her 6 post-dated cheques. I was told by a lawyer to NEVER send agencies post-dated cheques, just send them money orders per month. So I told her that's I would do, and she said she can only accept post-dated cheques and will not accept any other form of payment. I said, "really, so by not accepting money orders, you're essentially not accepting my payments at all. So basically, you're refusing to do the job that you were hired to do, which is collect a debt for CIBC." She responded with, "Well, how much would those money orders be?"

I've learned that collection agencies have to accept a payment plan based on your terms, because any payment is better than no payment. Also, if you make any payment at all, they will not have a strong case against you if they threaten to take you to court, because you are making payments, and not just dodging them and not returning their calls, which is the worst thing you can do.

I had three different agencies calling me, each handling three different portions of my student loan. I was expected to make three separate payments per month with three separate interest rates.

Seeing that my credit was already screwed, I went to credit counselling, and now I just pay one payment per month and no more harassing phone calls.

I even had to lower my payments temporarily with credit counselling when I was between jobs and it was no problem at all.

Might be an option for some of you.

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poopsie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote poopsie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/June/2004 at 10:28am
Hi there - Just wanted to let you all know, as I had one time worked in the "collections" field. If any collector calls you, you have the right to say "Do not call me anymore", This is applicable only for third party collection agencies such as CBCL and Nordon etc. They are third party collection agencies. If they insist, demand to be transfered to there supervisor and advise that you will be seeking legal action if the calls do not stop!!!

   Poopsie
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fedup View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fedup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/July/2004 at 11:21am

Cherylt,

All i can say is knowledge is power.

Good for you!

fedup
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Theresa99 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Theresa99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/September/2004 at 3:23pm
:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote momof2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/September/2004 at 7:33pm

poopsie -

if you ask them not to call you, would they interpret that as you were being uncooperative and that you are trying to duck your debt ? 

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Guests View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/September/2004 at 7:59pm
Absolutely. And if they have the avenue of execution they will ask for permission to sue. If not they will close it as uncollectable. Or perhaps put into the "check every 3 months" file.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote momof2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/September/2004 at 8:04pm
java - would uncollectable apply if you were unemployed and unable to work ?  what would they  consider uncollectable ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/September/2004 at 8:11pm

Depends on the agency. No agency likes to send one back to their client; it's an admission of failure.

What they want is proof you're unemployed (EI or welfare stubs sent in each time you get a check) along with a nominal payment. That justifies keeping your account open. It prevents the statute from ticking over and it keeps tabs on you so they can pounce when something good happens for you. For that, up to date information and continued contact is what they want.

A truly uncollectable account would be if you died, preferably intestate, became permanently hospitalised at government expense and had nothing to seize, or if you skipped cleanly and could not be traced after several attempts (and they're very, very good) or if you left the country for a place they can't reach you.

Even then they'd try from time to time. But they'd quit and move on to someone else.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote momof2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/September/2004 at 8:23pm
im unemployed but do not recieve any benefits - cant qualify for welfare since hubby works.  thought there may be a disablilty check in my near future, depending on how things go with the next round at the doctor's office.  chronic fatigue is just so much fun.
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Johnny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/September/2004 at 8:26pm

 

 Most collection agencies enjoy requesting legal action in cases where they do not have blanket permission. In some case,s their commission rates go up in the event. Collection agencies do not feel it is a defeat to suggest or recommend legal action. It makes that account more collectable in their eyes and minds.

 An account is deemed uncollectable when all efforts have been exhausted without any commitment. This is how it is defined in the agency environment.

 

 

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/September/2004 at 8:49pm

Johnny's right again. I didn't mean send it back to the client for legal action. I meant no agency likes to send it back as uncollectable.

Agencies like to have the client authorise legal action. As Johnny pointed out, the rates go up and less effort is needed to do the job. The big thing is that it makes up for all those empty threats when they actually get to file a claim. And then if they have a judgment, execution is much easier because the courts will help and depending on the province, they can use baillifs, sherrifs and in some cases even the police to help seize assets.

But the client will need certain criteria fulfilled before a lawsuit will be approved.

Minimum balance. The case has to be worth it. In most cases the judgment will cover a portion of the actual costs involved in filing the claim and trying the case. Not all, though, so the judgment amount has to be enough to warrant it.

Avenue of execution. There has to be a pot of gold in order for them to go chasing your rainbow. Seizable assets (your own vehicle, jewellery, art collections, more than the standard household allotment of electronics etc.) bank accounts that they are aware of, or employment that they don't suspect you will just up and quit when the court ordered garnishment hits your boss's desk.

History of failure to collect in any other way. I guess nobody wants to deal with lawyers; even those who retain them.

ALL of those elements have to be in place. Not just one or two of them. That's why I strongly recommend to everyone that you NEVER give them information they can use. That will deny them one of the elements they need to file the claim.

Ask any firefighter. A fire needs three elements. Heat, fuel and oxygen. Take away any one of them and the fire ain't happening. Same with a lawsuit. Take away even one element and you won't be sued. Take away two for safety's sake. Take 'em all away for a guarantee.

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Mersan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mersan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/September/2004 at 9:09pm

I am sure you are aware of Karl Popperís principle of falsification.  Well the last two elements were absent in my case and they sued me.  The suspicion is that it was a limitation issue and so that fourth element would trump the three you mention.  Also gullible as I was they may have been working a scam on me and I was too preoccupied to catch it.  It is important to note that in the US no rules or laws apply. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/September/2004 at 9:39pm

It is true that the likelihood of a lawsuit increases as the limitation date approaches. But along with the avenue of execution should be included a method of service. (perhaps the second element should all be lumped together as "useable information" including but not restricted to sources of revenue.

It is possible of course, to get an order of substitutional service, but most judges would want to be pretty sure that the method would actually work and that standard methods have been tried and failed. Publication of service for a debt claim is very rare.

If they don't know where you are, where you live or where you work, they can't serve you.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/September/2004 at 9:40pm
And, Mersan, technically, if your loan was defaulted, that fulfilled the third criterion. If it wasn't defaulted they never would have got their judgement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/September/2004 at 10:19pm

 

 Java,

 HRDC/ SDC will litigate to enforce that the statutes do not come into force. This is the only reason for litigation, really. When an agency refers an account back to the HRDC for justice due to non-compliance, the department usually sits on the account until a limitation issue arises. It not only increases, it is a given in today's recovery movement. The Provinces have the same protocol for guaranteed loans. The banks will sue IF it is recommended to be done based on that old "avenue of execution" factor. The HRDC does not require any such avenues because they have their own methods of recovery that others are not privy to conduct.

 As for methods of service, Public methodology is a rare occurence. Substituted service is not as rare any more. If an individual remains hidden, the judgment can still be obtained.

 Johnny

 

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/September/2004 at 10:23pm

 

 Mersan,

 Contact me at some point tomorrow. I have some information for you.

 

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zafire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2004 at 1:18am
If HRDC has taken a loan to court (and a judgement has been made), is there a statute of limitations on the ruling?











Edited by zafire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sleepless Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2004 at 10:38am
I think the statute for the judgement is 20 years.  The problem is that the judgement can easily be renewed, so they can do it before the statute runs out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mersan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2004 at 12:10pm

Java I was never informed that my account was in default.  I was not entitled to IR as I was out of the country and I had only sessional work.  A collection agency contacted me but they were targeting my wife who had only a part time job.  They kept calling her at work and I do believe I was somewhat abusive with the collection guy as a result.  The next contact was a call from an individual at HRDC.  Within a couple of minutes we set up a repayment schedule and I paid for 5 years.  I was never late with a payment.  In about 97 the paralegal who had my file called and said I had to increase my payment.  I told her that they knew my salary and this was not possible.  I said maybe it was time for me to look for a new form of work.  The paralegal thought this was a great idea.  I explained though that a consultancy would take a couple of years to get profitable.  I had to begin publishing in a new area and establish a reputation.  Well you know the gig. In the interim I would keep making my payments.  A year later I received a letter that they were going to sue me.  I pleaded with them to give me some more time as a judgment would destroy my business chances.  They said no deal.  On point 2 I had no salary or assets to attach and they knew it. 3) On point 3 I had been making payments and what was preventing me from increasing them was my salary and not any attempt to avoid paying.  And they decided to sue me. 

 

When HRDC hands the file over to their agent in the US that person finds a local in the state you live.  The local is given carriage of your file and has total autonomy to pursue whatever avenue of execution is deemed necessary. 

Your second point though relates to the Department of Education guidelines for lenders in that they are not allowed to pursue judgments against people who have no resources or salary that can be attached. 

Not certain what the relevance of service is here as they know where I am.  But I see the point that if they canít find you they canít serve you. 

A default is defined differently in the US than Canada. 

My point is that the vigilantes at Justice/Canada do not follow the guidelines.  They cannot be trusted. 

 

I thought a judgement was for 10 years in Canada and not renewable. A judgement for a student loan in the US is for life.



Edited by Mersan
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