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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zafire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2004 at 4:06pm
Mersan, I asked about the possibilities of a judgement becoming "stats barred" since it might be an option for you. Why don't you just wait it out? I mean, for all the stress that this is causing you --and has caused you-- it might just be easier to turn your back on the whole issue and carry on.

Being in exile isn't so bad...even if it is for a stupid reason.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sleepless Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2004 at 5:55pm

Mersan, sorry, you might be right.  On CanLaw its says "10 years and not renewable".

However, on this site there was a discussion and someone said 20.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mersan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2004 at 9:28pm

Zafire I am not really that stressed out. Excitable and agitated maybe.  My limitation issue is the period they have to bring judgment and from my reckoning they already ran out the clock.  I am already in exile.  I was planning to try and return to Canada or rather Montreal but am now having second thoughts.  On the student loan I will be fighting and not running. 

 

Sleepless it is nice that Canada sets a limit on a student loan judgment for 10 years and they are pursuing a judgment against me for life.  Did parliament which legislates laws really give civil servants this power or was it something the despotic urchins took for themselves.  Well there are jail cells awaiting for those who usurp power and destroy peoples lives for a whim or a stick of chewing gum or whatever is driving this insanity. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zafire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2004 at 3:33am
Mersan,

I find myself in a similar situation: that is, living abroad  with a student loan obligation that went into default.  Unlike you, I don't think I have been sentenced, although that too may be possible since I have not visited Canada in almost six years. What I do know is that if I return to Canada, there are likely two scenarios: i) I will be hit will loan repayments / wage garnishments that will eat into the better part of my salary (on a loan that does not get any smaller at 10 per cent interest) or ii) a lifetime of the Canadian government skimming off income tax returns, etc.

By not going back, am I running away? Or will I be putting myself into an endentured labour situation?


Edited by zafire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mersan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2004 at 6:53am

I was paying them and they stole the money and now they are engaged in a pretty transparent cover-up.  They are also insisting that they want to litigate despite the fact that the accounting fraud, obstruction and conspiracy are well documented.  I am determined to seek redress here. I really have nothing to lose by going to court.  They have everything to lose because if the documentation I have on them is submitted in a court there will have to be criminal filings.  It is that egregious.  I have a smoking bazooka loaded with enough incriminating evidence to bring down the department of justice. 

 

Zafire so what I meant by not running pertains to my resolve to fight them on the criminal issue.  It has nothing to do with residence.  As default in Canada is a permanent condition I see no responsibility on the borrower to repay once that status is assigned as it is a barbaric way to treat people.  If your file has been assigned to Justice you have 6 years for them to find you and get a judgment.  Beware though that they most likely will not follow the law.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zafire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2004 at 7:17am
Be careful when going to court --chances are that they will have a priori cast you as a criminal... There was a post here of a fellow who showed up in court and the way the judge treated him was laughable, in true kangaroo court style. I guess my overall feeling since I first started realizing that I was banging my head against the wall is that there is no point. Once, while speaking to someone in Ottawa about my student loan, there was this kind of "don't bother trying to get your loan figured out because you're f**ked if you do and your f**ked if you don't" attitude that imbued what he was saying.

I simply chose the "f**ked if I don't" path. 

Edited by zafire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mersan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2004 at 7:53am

Beginning in 1998 there has not been a single instance where HRDC/Justice has followed the law or standard accounting procedures in my case.  At this point what can they do to me?  I discovered that my payments were being stolen. They have never been able to account for the money or what happened.  Instead they have engaged in an elaborate cover-up that continues to this day.  I do get your point but our show down will be in a US court.  And if this nonsense persists I am going to the RCMP.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2004 at 8:26am

You are aware of the commission of a crime. You're the victim. You say it is fully documented.

What do you mean "if this nonsense persists"?

Do what's right.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mersan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2004 at 8:52am

That message is for the others.  It means I am not going to be intimidated.  I have done what is right and reported these crimes to the chief law enforcement official in Canada.  I have in other words written in great detail about this to the Attorney General and my reports have disappeared.  They donít seem to care.  I posted a bunch of articles about corruption in Canada that were published before the election and all of these it appears were ignored by the general public.  No one I talk to in Canada seems to have a clue what is going on.  The exception is this board.

 

 I get the impression from your posts that you have this blind faith that Canadian justice works according to some prescribed code of logic.  You report a crime an action is taken.  If you are judgment proof they wonít sue.  It doesnít work like that.  If one was simply dealing with criminals here they would perhaps want to cut a deal to cover their tracks.  But they are both criminals and morons and it is difficult to have a dialog with people who have absolutely no regard for consequences.

 

What should one do that could be considered right?  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dazed&confused Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2004 at 6:29pm
Mersan, could you get an international third party to oversee your case? Much in the same way the U.N. oversees elections when there is a high probability of corruption at the ballots.  I'm thinking Amnesty International may have resources to show you the way, seeing as it is the Crown that you are fighting. Hard to fight for justice when the sherriff himself is dirty and the shootout's in his corral.

Edited by dazed&confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2004 at 7:54pm

Gee, Mersan I never thought of myself as having blind faith in Canadian justice (or anything else, for that matter).

I was only asking you why you would wait for the "nonsense to persist" before you would deal with the RCMP.

Strikes me that the nonsense has persisted for long enough to justify talkng to them if there's any substance to your allegations.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mersan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/September/2004 at 9:43pm

Student debt is not considered a human rights issue in Canada.  I have called them and just about every one else.  I have not tried an international group. 

 

But I have talked to people at Foreign Affairs and the Auditor Generalís office and they refer me back to Justice.  In the last few posts much of the detail was intended simply to refute this theory that if certain elements were not in harmony they would not try and bring suit.  That is not true.

 

Java you are a spectator and not in the game.  If you ever attempt to resolve your situation you will see it ainít easy.  I suspect if it was you would not be where you are. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/September/2004 at 1:06am

Wow, Mersan! All I did was ask you what was preventing you from contacting the RCMP.

You're the one who said you were waiting to see if the nonsense persists.

You have quite a talent for attacking those who don't immediately accept you as the final authority on everything you deign to lecture us on.

And by the way....I am very much a participant. You have no idea what efforts I made to resolve my situation, which incidentally was somewhat more egregious than accounting errors. Or a conspiracy to commit accounting errors.

No one here is belittling your efforts, so why don't you back off a little? We, or at least I, have a great deal of sympathy for someone who saw his ideal jobs go to those whom others considered better suited. It must be tough to see others succeed where you have failed; I'm very sorry for you. But I'm not your enemy.

Yes, people can make a living by the written word. I can and I do. Every journalist I know does. I'm sorry you aren't able to. Please accept my hearfelt commiseration; but there is really no need to attempt to marginalise me on an issue that is significant to me in a way you may never understand.

We're behind you and support you. We hope that your consultancy eventually finds all the success it deserves. There's really no call to take cheap shots at me or anyone else here, okay?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mersan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/September/2004 at 8:51am

Well Java your little tirade was full of cheap shots.  What you have simply done is adopted the position of those in Canada who blame borrowers for their plight.  Itís the Darwinian paradigm of survival of the fittest and those who donít cut it are simply whiners.  You are boxed in by that mode of thought and may not be aware of it.  Itís just an observation.

 

The issue of contacting different agencies in Canada is a bit complicated at present.  The intelligence services are conducting extensive background checks on individuals who apply for various documentation through Immigration Canada.  I donít know if this includes passport applications but I have heard of people having trouble.  Itís all a bit vague but it includes collecting data on individuals from the various government departments. Where is this information housed?  What are they doing with it?  Is there oversight?  What happens if bad data gets into the mix?  My priority is making sure all ďthe errorsĒ in my case are cleaned up. 

 

I stated that you are somewhat removed from the scene and that there have probably been developments that you are not that aware of as you are not active.  If you intend to live abroad it is beneficial to keep up on those developments.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/September/2004 at 7:33pm

C'mon Mersan, that's not what you said and you know it.

And do us all a favour and stop misrepresenting our positions. I never said, implied, suggested, felt or took the position that the borrower is to blame for the problem.

Far from it.

I'm sorry if I fail to genuflect when you start your pontificating, but it is possible, you know, to have a different position on an issue and still be intelligent and literate.

I recognise your bitterness. But go be bitter at those who made the errors in your accounts or the academics who hired someone better suited to the position or the editors who sent you rejection letters or to the clients who won't pay you to harangue them like you do us.

Originally posted by Mersan Mersan wrote:

Java you are a spectator and not in the game.  If you ever attempt to resolve your situation you will see it ainít easy.  I suspect if it was you would not be where you are. 

So Mersan,I'm very sorry about your tragic story. I really am. So are the others on this site, I suspect. But please recognise that everyone here has a story. Everyone here has been screwed and everyone here has a right to their viewpoint, whether it satisfies your demand that it dovetail with your personal prejudices and superior posturing or not.

Do us all a favour. Disagree, agree, whatever. But don't lie about what we said, and don't try to exclude someone from consideration out of envy, or a suspicion that they see through you.

So once again. Lighten up, OK?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mersan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/September/2004 at 10:00pm

Java  Are you now the main voice on this site?  Do us all a favor you say. Did you have a vote?  Just curious.  Why am I threat to you? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/September/2004 at 10:46pm

My apologies, Mersan. Let me rephrase. Do me a favour and don't lie to me about what you said to me. Given that this is an open forum, I spoke as one of many who are capable of reading your posts.

Do you think it's possible for you to chill out a bit? No one is attacking you. I'm not threatened by you or any of your insults. But you seem to get all bent out of shape because I fail to accept as a given that your blanket assertions carry the force of something carved on stone tablets and carried down from the mountain.

Holy smokes, Mersan, we've all been to school, here. That's why we're here. Some of us may even be as educated and qualified as you. Many have accomplished a lot more in the face of even bigger obstacles.

I fully support your efforts to climb out of the hole that your experience with student loans has put you in. I genuinely hope that you eventually find what you're looking for. I honestly wish you success. Repeated failure is demoralising and embittering. So please, don't try to alienate someone who is on your side.

I'm proud of you for all of the effort you put in to rectify the situation. Now can you stop sniping at me? I don't need this and the other members of the forum must be getting tired of it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mersan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/September/2004 at 7:30am

Java you were using a rhetorical device where you claimed you were the many.  I was just curious. 

 

You are telling me to chill out!  Take a look at some of your posts.

 

On engaging you personally.  From my posts on the relationship between social policy and health you have been on the attack.  I asked why and you said you donít care if there are any changes in Canada as you have your mangos. 

 

On this issue if I am simply disgruntled and lack the skills others have who get the jobs in the Canadian University.  Or if my life is one big failure because of the student loans. That is your opinion. 

 

I have posted that my case is in play and you are away and your case is not.  You keep mentioning the limitations. I have also posted that my positions here and the way I articulate them are intended for a larger audience. I have been very honest and clear as to what my situation is.

 

I see this board and my case as an opportunity to have an impact on student loan policy.  You do not share that view and have stated that.

 

 I have also posted that my intention is to return to Canada.  You belittled that.  As you did the fact that I had confidence the integrity of institutions could be rebuilt.  Youíve been very argumentative.

 

I do not see us as being on the same side on any issues.  You can interpret that as you like.   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote momof2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/September/2004 at 7:37am

mersan

if you paid on your loans for 5 years surely you have receipts for this ?  your case has been dragging on for so long why are you still playing with those idiots at justice and hrdc ?? 

if you have all the documentation and are getting nowhere with justice and hrdc, try somewhere else.  what about the original lender ?  each bank has an ombudsman to investigate complaints.  if you have proof of your payments wouldnt the bank have to investigate independant of hrdc to see where the money went ? 

what about the media ??  gesh, that would make hrdc look fantastic in the eyes of the taxpayer.  embezzel 5 years of student loan payments then spend how many years in litigation at the taxpayers expense trying to get it sorted out with a debtor who isnt even in the country.  seems to me it couldnt hurt at this point. 

"if this nonsense persists..."  what are you waiting for, justice and hrdc to tell you you now owe 250K and your first born to cover the interest ??  i would have gone public a long time ago if it were me.  either you have more patience than st. theresa or you are a glutton for punishment or you have a master plan that you're keeping to yourself.  i'm all for standing your ground but know when to walk away and start the fight on another front.  if they dont want to play the game by the rules, change the game.

as for the vague reference to contacting different agencies in canada, well if you have actual proof that they are gathering info through immigration in some insidious plot, insert the link so we can all read it, otherwise you sound a wee bit like mel gibson in conspiracy theory. 

mersan, you are obviously an intelligent guy who has been through a ton of crap with your loans.  and we sympathize, we really do.  but arguing with java is not going to solve anything.  he's not the antichrist, you know. sniping at him will accomplish nothing.  rather than trying to alienate java and the rest of us, why not see if we can help, either with ideas or information or maybe a fresh perspective.

java, mersan, obviously you guys have a hard time agreeing on anything.  if you guys want to argue, can you do it somewhere else ?  you could always ignore each other, you know.

please, you guys, can we find something better to do ?  like figure out how to fix the problem ?  seems like a more productive solution than sniping at each other to me.



Edited by momof2
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zafire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/September/2004 at 11:54am

Hi all....

I too have to admit that Java's quips about Mersan not being able to get a job becausde others were more skilled a bit backhanded... There has been an ongoing discussion on this board about the academic labour market and its tendencies to hire Americans and/or people possessing US graduate degrees. I have found a similar situation in a lot of schools, not all mind you, but a great deal, especially in Canada's flagship schools like UBC, McGill, etc. For some, leaving forever is not an option, let alone reinventing oneself in some third world enclave. By the way Java, do you know many people are killed by hanging out under coconut and palm trees?  

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