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Financial Questionaire Violates Privacy Laws

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    Posted: 20/February/2008 at 3:13pm
Looks like a no brainer to me ...

The financial questionaire is likely illegal!!!!

We need someone who has been asked to file a financial questionaire to file a complaint with the privacy Commissioner of Canada.

112 Kent Street
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Please include your full contact details in your letter, including your name, address and the telephone number where you can be reached, and provide as much detail as possible about your complaint.

From http://www.privcom.gc.ca/information/02_05_d_08_e.asp

Your ability to control your personal information is key to your right to privacy.
The Act gives you control over your personal information by requiring organizations to obtain your consent to collect, use or disclose information about you. The Act confers certain rights on individuals, and imposes specific obligations on organizations.


The law requires organizations to:
     obtain your consent when they collect, use or disclose your personal information;

     supply you with a product or a service even if you refuse consent for the collection, use or disclosure of your personal information unless that information is essential to the transaction;}
     collect information by fair and lawful means; and
     have personal information policies that are clear, understandable and readily available.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Madmorrigan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/February/2008 at 8:20am

Does that also apply to info accessed through the Credit Bureaus?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Madmorrigan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/February/2008 at 8:24am
As well, does it apply to account numbers?? All my loans use some form of my FULL SIN# (usually with letters tagged onto the end) and anyone with half a brain could figure it out.
 
I may write the privacy commissioner anyway...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/February/2008 at 8:27am
You'd have to check with the privacy oommissioner on that..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/February/2008 at 6:27pm
But don't expect a reply anytime soon.
 
I filed a complaint in September 2006. I got a generic acknowledgement in January 2007. They sent a letter asking me to call them and discuss it in May 2007. I called them to change my address and ask for an update (they had none) in June 2007. I've received no mail or phone calls from them since then.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/February/2008 at 7:47pm
Wow... so I guess we have to work that much harder on it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulaffleck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/February/2008 at 8:44pm

Has the Canadian Federation of Students ever retained a lawyer to write a legal memo to address the legal question of whether these "questionnaires" in some way violate federal privacy laws?  What's needed is a lawyer's opinion, I think.

The federal government would likely argue that these forms are questionnaires, and that people can choose whether to complete them.  I forget what was the questionnaire that ARO sent to me, because I refused to complete it.  I would imagine that it contains some kind of "consent" portion. 
 
 
And of course, no matter whether the forms comply with privacy legislation or not, because the debt is due and payable in full, the government is well within its rights to simply say, ok, we're going to sue you.   Let's say we win the argument over violation of privacy laws.  Couldn't the government simply say: "Ok, no more questionnaires - we'll just start suing more people"? 
 
I think that some official body representing students needs to retain a lawyer and pay for a legal opinion on the issue, then that body needs to make its case to the government.  Whether it will actually make student debtors' plights any different is an open question. 
 
I think the real answer is to raise public awareness of the plight of student debtors, with the ultimate goal of a general amnesty for student loan, or at least a partial amnesty. 
 
I don't see how winning piecemeal legal battles like the privacy issue will tackle the essential issue:  People are going not just broke but bankrupt on account of student debts, and that should be unacceptable to all who believe in access to higher education for the public at large.
 
My 2 cents.
 
-Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/February/2008 at 8:55pm
Hi Paul,
The CFS is an organization that represents 'students' so they are generally involved in issues that affect borrowers after they leave school. It is basically beyond their mandate = and if you google CFS and lawsuit, they've had their own issues to deal with regarding their Travel Cuts division and the attempts of some schools to break away from the organization.

As for school organizations, their representatives change every years so the continuity isnt often there to get these matters going.

Unfortunately the people who need the help dont seem to have the funds to retain a lawyer to do the work...

As for an organization that represents borrowers.... well, we're it! and as well the Coalition for Student Loan Fairness... at http://www.studentloanfairness.ca which I co-founded with Julian who has been working really hard on getting the message out to media.

For this issue, I could really use some help on this. If you know of a lawyer who could investigate and advise what to do, that would be a huge help!

Basically, some collections agents are bullies- with a financial questionaire as their weapon. The bullies wont go away, but at least I can try to take away their weapon and disarm them for now. And you are right, they may just go for more drastic actions, and then we'll have to deal with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/February/2008 at 11:31am
I've checked my consolidation agreement and there is a clause giving my bank the permission to collect personal info about me, but I doubt that this can be argued to go as far to collect the info in the questionaire, so it needs to be challenged in light of the wording of the consolidation agreement.

Also requiring a spouses info is not right in my idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulaffleck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/February/2008 at 9:13am
I just a financial questionnaire from ARO.  Because of this discussion, I looked for, and found, some reference to the use that would be made of the information provided, specifically that it would only be used in accordance with existing privacy legislation.  I'm paraphrasing here, obviously.
 
But it seems to me that these are "questionnaires", that the debtor can choose to either complete or not complete.  It also seems that the use of this information is restricted by existing privacy legislation.  I don't see this argument going very far, you know...
 
The other unfortunate aspect to this issue is that the questionnaire is being used to assess the financial status of debtors who have already defaulted on student loans - the government may take the position that they are extending a courtesy, and that they could simply sue all student debtors, rather than inquire into their financial status in the hopes of coming to a repayment agreement.  To the extent that the questionnaires are being used to establish repayment terms, and in effect to stave off litigation, I don't see the equities as being favourable, either.
 
Of course, the larger question is that of the entirely questionable and sometimes downright nasty tactics that the collectors use in dealing with debtors.  Also, I don't see why these questionnaires are required to come to adequate repayment arrangements.  But I just don't see how they somehow violate privacy laws.
 
Sorry -- hope I'm wrong!
 
I think we are stuck with the questionnaires. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/February/2008 at 4:41pm
Appreciate your comments on this...

Heres some additional info. If you dont fill out the questionaire, your file is marked as "client being unco-operative"

The questionaire info is compared with the statistics canada tables and then the borrower is asked to justify all the expenses.

The questionaire is used to try to squeeze out additional payment from the borrower so that the agency makes a higher commission.

The questionaire also requires info about ones spouse.

What I'm arguing here is that the Collection agency and perhaps the government does not believe you have the right to refuse to fill out these questionairs. Refusing to fill the questionaire often leads to being screamed at by the collection agents and further harassment.

The the grounds for a complaint is that apparently the CA's dont think that we have the right to refuse filling out the questionaire, and that the purpose of the information is not clearly stated.

Any thoughts on this issue?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulaffleck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/February/2008 at 4:55pm

My knowledge of privacy laws is pretty sketchy at best, but it's interesting to consider the issue of the spouse's income being included.  I don't have my questionnaire in front of me, but might there be an issue of whether the spouse needs to consent to the giving of information to the CA?

 
Of course, there might be some really simple answer to this question - I just have no idea what it might be!
 
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Above it was suggested by paulaffleck  that "it seems to me that these are 'questionnaires', that the debtor can choose to either complete or not complete."
 
Unfortunately it is my view that is not true that it is optional.  I wish it was.   The collectors and the government do not view these questionaires as optional and yes they say that you are being uncooperative and threaten to sue and yell and scream if you do not fill one of these forms out.
 
It is my view that if one fills out the form you are giving the collectors ammunition to take any measley resources that you may have and they will try to take those resources even if you have none.    The evil collectors will take every last dime.  They do not care if you are unemployed or have kids etc.   All they want is their commission on the money.   They do not care if they take your last dime.
 
Furthermore, filling out one of these forms could be considered essentially Self-incrimination.   I thought we had legal rights in this regard.   Do we not?
 
The forms are not used to determine payment arrangements, they are used to pump you for information to locate any meager financial resources that the collector can take.    In this regard they are being used in a way other than disclosed (determine a payment arrangement) and are a violation of privacy.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanja1085 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/February/2008 at 8:47am
I get one of those questionairres once every year or maybe 6 months...  I fill them out but I never include my banking information or work information.. I'll put my income and my expenses, but in those other fields I always put n/a.. my fed student loan used to be in a collection agency but now it's at service canada...   as for my spouse's information I do the same... last time i put that he doesn't wish for me to disclose information and I haven't gotten anything back from them... 
 
before you kill me, I used to work for a collection agency before (for about a year) and I hated it, but I was able to learn a lot of useful information that I apply and/or tell people...  I had so many problems with one when my royal bank student loan went to collections by my mistake.. I was young and naive and didn't realize that prior to 2000 there were bank loans and then the national student loan...  so the royal bank went to collections.. the private collection agency was so stupid that I ended up getting the royal bank to settle on less than half of what was originally owed. I could've sued them and now i wish I had... just by talking to me they broke about 5 bc collection laws and i ended up talking to the president/owner of the pca and they agreed to settle at 40% (even tho I called them the day the loan went to pca..)  they sent me a letter signed by a lawyer telling me that they are going to sue me, but when i called the lawyer they didn't even have a license to practice law in bc.. *lol*  on top of that , on the letter it told me to contact this person at the pca, only for me to find out she doesn't even have a licence either to look at my information.. it was a joke..   bcuz of my knowledge, i had so much fun settling my loan, but i had every intention of paying it back..  I just worked at 8 bucks an hour and that wasn't possible.  now if i can just win a lottery and pay off my 20k fed loan.. Wink
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Its always made me wonder how these clowns get phone numbers,cell and home,  ( that are in my name  not my wifes ) new job info etc easily without talking to any one in our family or any friends .....or why these debts sit for 2 -5 years or more and then the hardcore threats and harassment start from the get go....These guys make me laff in the sense every time they have called they are the ones that wind up screaming by the end of the call.

As far as the questionnaire forms go I believe it is a catch 22 scenario....they are in violation of the privacy act yet if you don't fill them out  you're hiding something (cut and paste this link in the address bar if it won't take you there)

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/P-21/bo-ga:s_7//en#anchorbo-ga:s_7

This reads in part: section 8 (1) Personal information under the control of a government institution shall not, without the consent of the individual to whom it relates, be disclosed by the institution except in accordance with this section.

Of course there is more bafflegarb on this site, that may contradict this...but it seems to me that this should include any agency acting on a company's (bank) or the Gov's behalf...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ottawa Gal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/February/2008 at 3:24am
I just saw this thread today.  I can tell you from work experience in federal privacy  that when it comes to a person owing money - its pretty much a free for all.  There is a section in the legislation that authorizes organizations collecting a debt to do a lot of things without the individual's consent - including calling "anyone" to get information to track the person down - however they cannot reveal the amount (s) owed.  Forget the Privacy Act  for collection agencies- it is not the applicable legislation - what you want to look at is the Personal Information Protection of Information Documents Act (PIPEDA).  Further, some provinces (Québec, BC, Alberta) have enacted "substantially similar" legislation and so PIPEDA and the Privacy Commissioner will not apply - you need to refer to that province's legislation and contact the Privacy Commissioner there. 

Banks fall under the Privacy Act - I am not sure how the Privacy Commissioner fits in with the NSLC since the NSLC manages both federal and provincial loans.  It would be good to call and ask the question - it never came up for me, when I worked there.

The federal Privacy Commissioner only manages privacy issues that the feds collect/use/disclose, as well as FUWB'S (federal works undertakings and banks).  A form is not a problem unless you are denied a benefit for not providing the personal information demanded.  You could send it to the privacy commissioner (whoever the right one might be, given the information I provided above) and have someone look at it - however, the fed priv commissioner does not provide that service - they get involved AFTER a formal complaint has been made and under PIPEDA, they will normally advise you to first complain to the privacy officer, give the privacy officer a reasonable amount of time to respond and if you get nowhere, then make a formal complaint to the priv commissioner and include all correspondence between you and the privacy officer of the organization involved - then you can wait about a year for a response, give or take - depending on urgency.

As a final note, you can ask any organization's privacy officer under what legislative authority the information is being collected, what will be done with it, how long and how it will be stored (i.e. if stored in databases in the USA it becomes subject to the Patriot Act, so you don't wanna consent to THAT), used, disclosed, etc. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ottawa Gal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/February/2008 at 3:33am

Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act

2000, c. 5

P-8.6


http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/P-8.6/bo-ga:l_1//en#anchorbo-ga:l_1


Disclosure without knowledge or consent

(3) For the purpose of clause 4.3 of Schedule 1, and despite the note that accompanies that clause, an organization may disclose personal information without the knowledge or consent of the individual only if the disclosure is


(b) for the purpose of collecting a debt owed by the individual to the organization;

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from the Privacy Commissioner's website


http://www.privcom.gc.ca/fs-fi/02_05_d_02_e.asp


Social Insurance Numbers (SIN)

What is the Social Insurance Number (SIN)?

The Social Insurance Number (SIN) was created in 1964 to serve as a client account number in the administration of the Canada Pension Plan and Canada's varied employment insurance programs. In 1967, what is now Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) started using the SIN for tax reporting purposes.

Why do organizations ask for it?

Organizations in and outside government ask for the SIN because it is a simple method of identification. Many use it as a client account number to save them from setting up their own numbering systems.

Although only certain government departments and programs are authorized to collect and use the SIN, there is no legislation that prohibits organizations asking for it.

Why is my SIN so important to personal information and privacy?

  • The SIN may be a key piece of information to open the door to your personal information.
  • Computer technology makes it possible to use the SIN to find and match your information from one database to another; without your knowledge, a detailed profile could be drawn about you. This amounts to "data surveillance" or monitoring of your daily life, which can pose a serious threat to our privacy and autonomy.
  • Your SIN can be used to steal your identity. Along with other personal information, someone may be able to use your SIN to apply for a credit card or open a bank account, rent vehicles, equipment, or accommodation in your name, leaving you responsible for the bills, charges, bad checks, and taxes.

Who can ask for my SIN?

Your SIN is a confidential number that is restricted to income reporting purposes. There are a select and limited number of federal government departments and programs specifically authorized to collect the SIN. See list below.

The authority to collect and use the SIN is tied to a specific legislated purpose, not necessarily to a particular body. For example, an employer can collect an employee's SIN to provide them with Records of Employment and T-4 slips for income tax purposes, as can provincial or municipal agencies to report financial assistance payments for income tax purposes.

Institutions from which you earn interest or income, such as banks, credit unions and trust companies, must also ask for your SIN.

So, what can I do when asked for my SIN?

  • Ask if you are required by law to provide it (see list below);
  • Ask why the person needs it, how it will be used and to whom it will be given;
  • Your SIN is not a piece of identification. If it is not required by law (and you are not satisfied with the explanation), tell the person you prefer not to use the SIN and offer other identification;
  • If the organization refuses to give you the product or service unless you give your SIN, complain to the Privacy Commissioner of Canada;
  • If you would like better legal protection for your SIN, call or write your federal Member of Parliament.

Do any provincial and municipal safeguards exist?

While most provincial and municipal governments may not be prohibited from collecting and using the SIN, many are reviewing their use of it and considering alternatives. All provinces and territories have privacy laws to protect personal information in government files.

If you are concerned about how your provincial government is using the SIN, contact your provincial information and privacy commissioner and find out more.

How am I protected in the private sector?

The Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (PIPEDA) sets out ground rules for how private sector organizations may collect, use or disclose personal information in the course of commercial activities.

Since January 1, 2001, the Act applied to personal information about customers or employees that is collected, used or disclosed by the federally-regulated sector in the course of commercial activities. It also applies to information that is sold across provincial and territorial boundaries. As of January 1, 2004, the Act covers the collection, use and disclosure of personal information in the course of any commercial activity within a province, including provincially-regulated organizations, except in provinces that have enacted legislation that is deemed to be substantially similar to the federal law.

Under the new law, organizations like banks, telecommunications companies and airlines cannot require you to consent to the collection, use or disclosure of your personal information unless it is required for a specific and legitimate purpose.

This means that unless an organization can demonstrate that your SIN is required by law, or that no alternative identifier would suffice to complete the transaction, you cannot be denied a product or service on the grounds of your refusal to provide your SIN.

If you disagree with a request for your SIN made by an organization that is subject to the PIPEDA, you can complain to the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, who will investigate the complaint.

Legislated uses of the SIN (or legislation that regulates its use) include:

  • Canada Pension Plan, Old Age Security and Employment Insurance contributions or claims (the original purposes for the SIN);
  • Income Tax identification;
  • banks, trust companies, caisse populaires and stock brokers when they sell you financial products (GICs or Canada Savings Bonds) or services (bank accounts) that generate interest. They declare your interest to Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) for income tax purposes;
  • various Veterans Affairs benefit programs;
  • Canada Student Loans or Canada Student Financial Assistance;
  • Canada Education Savings Grants;
  • Gasoline and Aviation Gasoline Excise Tax Applications;
  • Canadian Wheat Board Act;
  • Labour Adjustment Benefits Act;
  • Tax Rebate Discounting Regulations;
  • Race Track Supervision Regulations;
  • Garnishment Regulations (Family Orders and Agreements Enforcement Assistance Act);
  • Canada Elections Act;
  • Canadian Labour Standards Regulations (Canada Labour Code);
  • Farm Income Protection.

Programs Authorized to use the SIN:

  • Immigration Adjustment Assistance Program;
  • Income and Health Care Programs;
  • Income Tax Appeals and Adverse Decisions;
  • Labour Adjustment Review Board;
  • National Dose Registry for Occupational Exposures to Radiation;
  • Rural and Native Housing Program;
  • Social Assistance and Economic Development Program

For more information about privacy and your SIN, call toll free 1-800-282-1376, or write:

The Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
112 Kent Street
Ottawa, ON
K1A 1H3

Visit the Human Resources and Development Web site to find answers to general questions about the SIN - such as how to apply for a SIN, or replace a lost or stolen card.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cadillacjerk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/February/2008 at 8:03pm
wow! great response! So please let me ask this: did you fill out your questionaire and if so and without going into great detail, what did you divulge in regards to spousal income etc?
 
Being new this site I havent had a chance to read all your posts but if they are as good as the last few then I'm looking forward to them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ottawa Gal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/February/2008 at 3:27am
cadillac

first, thanks :)

second - i am not in collection with my loans (yet) and have never been asked to fill out a form - however, since i know privacy laws fairly well (and all the players), i wish any organization lots of luck getting my personal information out of me - if i had a spouse i would direct them to collect his personal information directly from him, after counselling him, of course, to not disclose it - i'd have to see their legislative authority to collect 'anything' they are demanding, then i'd want to talk to their privacy officer, legal department, etc......i have two law degrees, (thanks to my student loans!) so good luck to them

:)
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