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SolveStudentDebt
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Location: Canada
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Posted: 08/January/2005 at 8:30am |
Collectors are intelligent to know how to avoid getting wrapped up or caught in complaint issues. This is something that I have been trying to convey for quite some time.
People have legitimate complaints about collectors,and their many tactical approaches, bad attitudes, and unlawful behaviors. Why are they still breaking the law? Why not ask each provincial ministry this question. Why not ask HRDC this question. They will all tell you the same things, and that is ...
"Collectors are not allowed to do this, that, and the other thing, yadda yadda... and if it is happening, it is something we (the governments) are not aware of, badda bing, yadda yadda, boo, ... and if caught doing so, collectors and their agencies will be either addressed or punished within the limitation of the acts and laws that govern, yadda yadda... We completely discourage collection agencies from this type of behavior and conduct... yadda yadda."
How many times have we heard this on the evening news? How many times have we read this in the newspaper?
Because it is still a chronic problem, it is further proof that the specific authorities are trying to cover up their inability to manage and monitor such things, and that collection groups know how to break rules and get away with it. Otherwise, there would be less problems.
In many cases, the governments will act only if there is proof of the misconduct. In other case,s the governments will measure these complaints based on their frequency and similarities, and make a beef or two with the agencies in question.
I would implore someone to call the HRDC or any Provincial government and ask this question:
"Why are collection agents - and agencies not punished for misbehavior issues and breech of the acts - and in some cases the law?" If a number of people were to make this phone call, and post the responses each have received, it would be quite interesting.
Johnny
Edited by Johnny
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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Coffee
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Joined: 21/September/2004
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Posted: 10/January/2005 at 7:42am |
Johnny,
I had repayment arrangements with CBCL for the past couple of years (150/mth) and in September 2004 recevied an ornery phone calls from a supervisor demanding full payment for the outstanding CSL (phone calls which I returned and subsequently endured the old fashioned verbal abuse and scare tactics).
These exchanges led me to file a formal compliant with Fatima (last name unknown) at HRDC. To their credit, HRDC (and I commend Fatima for her professionalism in handling my file) suspended my file for six months, meaning they contacted CBCL and , I assume, told them to cease the harassing phone calls. I also sent her a letter outlining my experiences with CBCL and asked a response. I have not received a response. I can only assume HRDC has hundreads of compliants similar to my own.
I agree with your approach with HRDC. I know that I will be following up with them shortly and will be asking that very question. In order for HRDC to answer this question they have to be cognizant of the fact that there is a problem. Either they are aren't aware that there is a problem or they are aware yet reluctant to address the issues problem because to do so would consitute their acknowledgement of their profound inability to manage and monitor the flaws of the student loan program. Based on my experience and those docmented on this site, I am inclined to accept the latter.
Keep up the good work, Johnny.
Coffee
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WestCoastGirl
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Posted: 10/January/2005 at 10:06am |
Be armed with as much info about your CSL as you can, or at least have
as much of the info that CBCL and HRDC have to know what they're after
you about.
Did you know that you can request a copy of your CSL file?? The following information was provided to me in a letter from HRDC in November 2004:
The info is
protected under the Access To Information Act so you have to send a
written request to:
Jean Dupont, Director
Access to Information & Privacy
Place du Portage
I floor, Phase IV
140 Promenade du Portage
Gatineau, Quebec K1A 0J9
Or you can fax the written request to: (819) 953-0659
** it takes 30 days from the date they receive the request.
RE: CBCL - Fatima (not sure of last name) is the Coordinator for CBCL. You can
contact her for info pertaining to your debt: 1-877-683-8339
NATIONAL COLLECTION SERVICES' toll free number is: 1-888-819-2516. Call
them to discuss any issues pertaining to defaulted CSL's.
In addition, I too dealt with a total beeeeeeeeyatch at CBCL. She was
brutal. I mean, she was abusive, rude, belligerent and harassing on so
many levels. I was rude back to her and called her on a few things. Her
tactic was always to leave a snotty message on voicemail, then when you
called her back, she'd answer in a snotty tone like she was the busiest
person on earth and before you had a chance to say a word she'd stick
you on hold for a minimum of 5 minutes. Anyway, I filed a consumer
complaint about CBCL and specifically her. I urge anyone else to do the
same, whether it was her or someone equally as rude. The only way anything gets done is if everyone complains.
(Ontario residents) Go to this Government site and click on E-complaint:
http://www.cbs.gov.on.ca/compform/english/services.htm
Edited by WestCoastGirl
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silence2long
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Posted: 10/January/2005 at 7:33pm |
Thanks WestCoastGirl
I hope that your post will help me in dealing with CBCL...will let you know how it turns out. I will request my CSL file right away.
I have been reading all the posts and feeling encouraged by it all. I am happy that I found this site....when I got on here I wanted to cry..I am so mentally exhausted by it all. I finally have a good job...and don't want garnish of wages in the picture. It would kill my job for sure. I am unsure how to deal with it all except the way that I have been...call display and then immediate delete of message when I hear the first automated message or spew from their mouth.
But today unfortunately...I listened ...As I have way back in the distant past...and returned the call. The guy I spoke to at CBCL seemed reasonable at first...until I would not divulge where I was working. Then he took a different tone(what was I thinking?) He told me that I have never paid the company anything in the past three years.....wow have I really been doing this for that long??? I already have my Federal loan collecting my income tax yearly....which is not very much until just recently....guess that has been going on for years too.
I am just sick to my stomach....it brings up all the emotions that I have kept under wrap for so many years...it defaulted I guess back in 1996...and have been living like this for years...paying some when I could...did all the post-dated cheques and such ...listened to the harrassing phone calls...filled out the income statements/budget sheets..up the yingyang....until one perfect day..(not sure what CA it was in then) when I got a call to up the payment..said I couldn't... and told that I would be charged for fraudulent information...He said "There is no way that a family of four can live on this income" I told him that was the problem...why was he asking me for more? Told me I would be reported for fraud...blah..blah...blah I reported him to Consumer's Afffairs and the calls stopped for a long time.... Now I am not sure if that was my provincial or federal...got lots of calls back then. I have lots of papers tucked away ...just need to go through them....lots have been used to start the fire I am sure...
I am not sure what to do from here...too start with I dispute the amount of the loan...it is far overblown...though with interest who knows. I don't know if I am being rooked or not...but I heard once that if you dispute it and then pay even a dime to the collection agency that you are then agreeing with the amount that they have set forth as true. I said this to him and he told me that is a lie...that I can dispute it by faxing him a letter stating I dispute it and send a cheque for $100. This will be considered a good faith that I do want to get this worked out...he said that "you know you at least owe $100 right?" I agreed. If not he would have to return this to the client (gov) since I have never paid his company CBCL anything ever and they have had it for 3 years. It is deemed uncollectable, and will go to ruling and have my wages garnished. Is this true ??? Why is the federal just taking my income tax then...would this have been a ruling or just otimatic ?? Can anyone help me in this ? He said that I have until Friday 14 to call back or fax letter or arrange payment.
My pleas in the past never got anywhere...I barely got anything more than a common beggar to begin with the four years that I went to school.(9,000 Federal(income tax withheld)4,000 OSL--CBCL says it's 9000 now....my goodness that is pathetic to think I even had a baby for the last year....how did I do it...pass me the kleenex box....) My story in like many of the 1000's....lost applications... reduced to eviction...food banks..denied for welfare because I was a student. Couldn't come up with the measlely 300 to keep it in the bank under interest relief...which I had to apply for before I even finished.
Wow this really sucks!!! Sorry to bore you. I just need help ???
Do I deal with it through CBCL???? Or go somewhere else ??? Will I be stuck with this indefinetly if I agree to start sending cheques again? To an amount that I do not agree with?
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silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long
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Sherpa
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Posted: 10/January/2005 at 8:01pm |
/
Edited by Sherpa
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have a nice day
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Sherpa
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Posted: 10/January/2005 at 8:21pm |
I know exactly how you feel maybe requesting the information is just what you need to do to get a handle on itall. I'm going to do the same thing tomorrow.
I am so mentally exhausted by this whole mess i can't even think straight anymore. I am second guessing myself. full of doubt. I too wonder if making payments is worth it and i do want to make payments. Here is an example of a calculation of my debt according to the National Student Loan Center:
Federal Loan Provincial Loan
original loan 25,866 5,584
interest 16,764 3,619
total loan 42,630 9,203
min pymts 373.95 80.73 = 455.00 (per month)
(they give you 10 years to pay it off with minimum payments)
Seems hopeless doesn't it.
Edited by administrator
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Sherpa
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Posted: 10/January/2005 at 8:33pm |
please excuse the < &n bsp;> on the 'total loan' line i couldn't delete for some reason.
fixed it for you - mark
Edited by administrator
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WestCoastGirl
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Posted: 11/January/2005 at 10:53am |
Guess what I got in the mail today? My CSL file. Holy smokes is it thick. It has everything!!!! Anyone who doesn't already have thiers MUST get a copy. It even gives you copies of ALL the transcripts between HRDC and CBCL (or whomever is calling you), and between CBCL and YOU. Seriously.
Now I should add that I am more p.o.'d today than ever, as some of the
entries from the CA's as to what was said in te conversations is not
accurate. Big surprise. In fact a call I had with some a**hole just a
few weeks ago seems to leave out all the nasty and abusive things he said to me and he even had the nerve to make some bs note that I was
"in poor attitude" when I initially called them. What a jerk. Anyway, I
have read through the 3 inches of paper they sent me and I still
cannot figure out where they get that I owe them anything. You can even
see through their own internal correspondence to each other that at
times they aren't even sure who has what or where things stand with me.
It's a friggin joke. All I can say is get a copy of yours. They told me
it takes 30 days, but it took only a couple weeks. Maybe 3 tops. The
other benefit to having it is if you need Johnny's help, you'll
probably make his life easier if he knows what he's dealing with in
advance.
Just a thought. Hope it helps.
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6273kat
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Joined: 28/April/2004
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Posted: 11/January/2005 at 11:18am |
Westcoastgirl,
Can you get this information all from one source(CSL) or do I have to approach each lender/institution seperately?(Royal Bank/CIBC) I had/have several loans with banks and National Student Loans.
Karla
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WestCoastGirl
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Posted: 11/January/2005 at 12:48pm |
All CSL related info:
To request a copy of your CSL file: The info is
protected under the Access To Information Act so you have to send a
written request to:
Jean Dupont, Director
Access to Information & Privacy
Place du Portage
I floor, Phase IV
140 Promenade du Portage
Gatineau, Quebec K1A 0J9
Or you can fax the written request to: (819) 953-0659
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 11/January/2005 at 7:02pm |
Silence,
If things become out of hand, and you cannot tame this problem, let me know. I can solve this little crisis for you.
Johnny
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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Coffee
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Posted: 12/January/2005 at 8:12am |
West Coast,
Great postings!
What other information should be in your cover letter to the Access to Information & Privacy? Will a social insurance number, date of birth suffice?
Also, what is included in your CSL file? Any notes from the CA?
Thanks for your help. This file will be very helpful when I re-send my complaint to HRDC!
Coffee.
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WestCoastGirl
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Posted: 12/January/2005 at 1:02pm |
Here's what I faxed them word for word:
Dear Jean Dupont: (not sure if it's a man or woman)
I
am interested in obtaining a copy of my Canada Student Loan (CSL) file
as per the Access to Information Act. Should you require personal
information in addition to my SIN (insert SIN here), please feel free
to contact me by telephone or email at: (tel & email).
With thanks,
Me & my address
That's all. The next day a lady
named Mrs. Carrier called me to get birthdate and a couple other things
to verify who I am and that was it! Good luck. Yes, notes from
the CA ARE included. It is unbelieveable!
Edited by WestCoastGirl
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silence2long
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Posted: 12/January/2005 at 7:16pm |
Thank you for your reply Johnny. I am in crisis.
After reading this site I have read some of the posts in the other forums.....Maybe I should have done that first....but I really wasn't thinking straight...I continue to read each night. I have been on here quite abit. I am not sure if I am becoming more confused but at least I am starting to do something.
WestCoast thank you again. I have drafted the CSL file letter.
I have been sifting through my own papers...gee I wish I had better record keeping...it is all over the place...scattered like my brain.....I am only starting to realize how much this has really affected me, and re-affected me......at this time though I am coping.
I just made a HUGE discovery on my part.....I really thought something looked familiar..........LIARS.........
CBCL was once called EQUIFAX CANADA (AFX) INC.
Yes I have the collection notices to prove this.....I just want to say that in my previous post I said.......
filled out the income statements/budget sheets..up the yingyang....until one perfect day..(not sure what CA it was in then) when I got a call to up the payment..said I couldn't... and told that I would be charged for fraudulent information...He said "There is no way that a family of four can live on this income" I told him that was the problem...why was he asking me for more? Told me I would be reported for fraud...blah..blah...blah I reported him to Consumer's Afffairs and the calls stopped for a long time....
It was the same company....now masked under the name CBCL... when I reported the ahole back then Consumer Affairs said that it was not the first call that they had received about this CA and the individual.....Anyways when I was on the phone the other day and he told me that his agency..CBCL had had my file for three years with no response...I told him about the ahole from EQUIFAX in the past and he told me that EQUIFAX was where you get credit reports from... it is not a collection agency.... basicallly calling me a moron....." Do I have to repeat it ? " I told him okay well it was something like that... He said "Well it wasn't" I said "Well then tell me where did you get this account from then?" He said that he did not know what collection agency it came from.... I told him then how can I know that unknown fees weren't taxed on? Because I do dispute the amount. He told me to just send my info... of what I think I owe and we will take it from there... with the $100 to show that I am in good faith.... Now I get it ....Just another ahole trying to catch me hook line and sink HER.
MR NICEGUY..... JUST THOUGHT I WOULD SHARE THAT INFO... Pretty sly don't you think????????????
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silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long
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silence2long
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Posted: 12/January/2005 at 7:51pm |
A little poetry I did way back(1990)... I found this too while sifting through the junk...only this was before I got into the CSL chapter in my life(1991-1996).. It is appropriate I think since it was beside my discovery of the night. That CBCL was once called EQUIFAX CANADA (AFX) INC.....I wonder how they teamed up in my junk(Ironic). Maybe I discovered it before and forgot. Anyways
Systematic people......looking out their...... Systematic eyes
They keep on tellin'.....Systematic lies....
Those people....those people....keep turnin' all the wheels
Those people...those people....neglecting how we feel
Systematic people....leading all their.....Systematic lives
They keep on ridin'......Systematic tides
Those people...those people.....I' ll tell you what they're worth
Those people...those people....are controlling our earth
Systematic people....looking out their....systematic eyes
They keep on tellin'.......SYSTEMATIC LIES
BITTER...me bitter???...so bitter it drove me to silence. Kudos to this site I do feel empowered....I use to have a voice...Now I just need to educate myself more on what to do about it.
And by the way...the old letter format is almost identical to the new they simply changed the account numbers and called the loan something else...oh yah and changed the company name....the address went from EQUIFAX 800-1210 Sheppard Av E North York ON M2K 1E3 to......CBCL 104 -1210 Sheppard Av E North York ON M2K 3C4
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silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long
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kwelmm
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Posted: 12/January/2005 at 7:57pm |
Silence-------I like that! You nailed it!
Empowerment is the key This site has done wonders for me, too!
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silence2long
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Posted: 13/January/2005 at 7:16pm |
Well another revelation for the night.....
The Collection House TCH is now called
Alliance One..... I have a notice stating that I owe them 16,000......hummmmmm...this is the federal loan that was once 9,000 and that I have been having income tax withheld for a few years..... well I can't wait to see that CSL file.
These companies don't send it off to another one....they keep them and just rename their companies.....This is freaking me out.
The Collection House...1979 Leslie Street..Toronto, ON..M3B 2M3
Alliance One Ltd...1979 Leslie Street...Toronto, ON...M3B 2M3
This company has a lovely new letterhead...but why are they still trying to collect my money....when the government is already?????
They changed the account number minorly......but have kept their phone number the same. Now I understand that companies fall into difficulties and new owners take over...but does anybody but me think this is really fishy?
It is like once enough people complain about a company...then they change their name...does this mean clean slate as far as Consumers Affairs is concerned.....makes you wonder how many complaints it takes in order to get their name changed ??? Then they act like they are somebody new that is there to be your saviour..."I can't talk about the practises of other collection agencies but we would like to make arrangements with you to pay this debt...blah...blah....blah...."
Has anybody else made these connections.....I am not looking to dodge these loans...as pathetic as it was to live in extreme poverty...I made it through...barely but I made it through.... I was pissed then...but now I am really getting stirred up. Doesn't the government realize what they are doing to people through this system? My time in school was when grants went out....and loan forgiveness hadn't started.....and screwed you around with interest relief....hence the CA's.....now this....is this a sick and twisted joke on this generation?
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silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long
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kwelmm
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Posted: 13/January/2005 at 7:30pm |
They are still trying to collect because the lein on the income tax is considered an involuntary payment (not sure of the correct wording there..)
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silence2long
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Posted: 14/January/2005 at 11:28am |
Thanks Kwelman
...but things just don't seem to be jiving.....maybe it will make more sense to me in a few weeks from now...this has not been a good one. I continue to sift.....and read. It is the weekend so I have a few days...This will not consume me...I will not allow it!!! I promised myself years ago that I would not let this issue control me.....I broke that promise to myself this week....and I need to get a grip on it. I refuse to live in emotional turmoil.
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silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long
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kwelmm
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Posted: 14/January/2005 at 12:14pm |
Silence2long, take a deep, slow breath! Okay...If the sifting and reading is increasing your emotional turmoil, step back from it and do take a break--refocus yourself! If you let this drive you up the wall...it will!
Wait and see what the CSL file has in it that you posted you were going to request. This will hopefully put things into perspective for you. Until then...take care of yourself (your child needs you and you need you).
Best of luck!
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