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Posted: 30/September/2004 at 3:38pm |
In fact, to follow up on Johnny's comments, it might encourage a lawsuit.
If an agency has everything they need to sue...information, sufficient balance, avenue of execution, permission or direction from the client, etc., the receipt of a letter from a lawyer or paralegal will often make them choose not to set up a payment arrangement of any sort and simply file the claim. For one thing, you will have effectively closed the door on any negotiations and, as well, they avoid any likelihood of getting sued themselves over bad collection practices. They know that if they are being watched, sooner or later they're bound to step on their dicks.
Use a lawyer (or paralegal) like a loaded weapon. Don't point it at someone unless you're prepared to go all the way.
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billw
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Joined: 23/August/2004
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Posted: 01/October/2004 at 12:09pm |
To Johnny and Java Man,
I think he was born torked off, but let's drop this one because you and I will not see eye to eye on this one.
I sought a paralegal because all avenues of negoitiations were exhausted.
A para legal will stop the harassing calls as all communications are rooted through you lawyer, and yes I am willing to go the distance. Do you know why? Because what they are doing is not right. Also this issue has not come up in court yet, and in the event it does it will set a precedence. Hopefully it will not be in vain, but realistically speaking the facts are this; it was triggered by a OSAP error, they tried to collect 12 years after they caught the fact, they want full payment in 6 months, the statutes of limitations is 6 years and yes they are the do represent the government, I do believe most judges would toss this case as they would consider it a waste of time and taxpayers money.
So who has more to lose?
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billw
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Posted: 06/October/2004 at 5:45pm |
Yo Java Man,
You are hilarious! Because you are right on the money! I was laughing my ass off, mainly because if I had to write about the individual in question in under 30 words or less, I could not have written a better job!
Thanks for the words of encouragement Java Man!
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Islander
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Joined: 07/October/2004
Location: Indonesia
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Posted: 07/October/2004 at 8:18pm |
It looks like the website administrator disagreed with Java and your assessment as I see he has altered the record to reflect a kinder, gentler website.
Seems Big Brother is indeed watching and continues to subscribe to the theory that if you change the historical record, you change history.
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Alfred E Newman
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administrator
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Joined: 25/January/2003
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Posted: 08/October/2004 at 4:56am |
Although I understand the posts I removed were meant in humour,
I removed posts that
a) were seriously disparaging comments about another person
b) suggested that harming another person was legal
Please note that this site is visited regularly by collection agencies, HRDC, the PM's office among others. (IP addresses tell alot)
Someone could easily have taken the posts the 'wrong way' and this could have had very serious implications for the poster and the site.
Its ok to think these humourous thoughts , but just dont post it :)
Hope you all understand. I'm just trying to play it safe!
Mark
PS: Welcome Islander. hmmm same fonts as Java Man... same writing style... hmmm either way, welcome!
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dazed&confused
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Posted: 08/October/2004 at 6:09am |
Which were the posts in question?
Mark, are you serious that these people really check us out? Why on earth don't they DO something???? Although I guess if they are reading this, it's a start, I suppose....
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dazed&confused
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Posted: 08/October/2004 at 6:34am |
BTW, Although Voltaire said it best, we do need to accept responsibility for what we say, anonymous or not. I should say an apology if any of my posts gave anyone the willies as I didn't know any of them CARED!!! I really am a pacifist even if my posts (meant in good fun) would allege otherwise.
I have enough government people after me. I don't need CSIS to join the bandwagon.
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eshelton
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Posted: 08/October/2004 at 1:46pm |
Well I hope the CA's and government are taking hints - we don't like your service.
If CollectCorp is researching me for the supposed $900 I owe for an
Ontario Student Loan, just show me the proof. I'll gladly
pay the whole balance (it's below 6 years).
Edited by eshelton
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"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven." - Jean Chretien
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ANNM04
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Posted: 08/November/2004 at 9:21am |
Hi all. I posted my situation in July (grant overpayment from about 15 years ago). I received a few suggestions and have read just about every post on this site and still don't know what to do. It isn't clear what our rights are and what we can do--I guess the government and collection agencies are taking advantage of that. I've been receiving calls from a collection agency, about twice a week, for the past seven months. They have recently started to call me at work. I haven't answered the phone in months, I let my machine pick up. Should I send the CA a letter (what do I write?) or continue to ignore them ? I find the whole thing ridiculous. If OSAP wants to collect overpayments, they should do so within a decent timeframe. As for overpayments from 5, 10, 15 years ago, too bad, they should have put their act together before.
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Pigeon
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Posted: 08/November/2004 at 11:59am |
I've gone through the posts and it certainly looks like the government has gone a fishing expedition going after loans over a decade old. My only concern is this discussion of sending letters of response. If these loans are statute barred........isn't a letter from a paralegal sent to the CA and acknowledgement of the loan. The way it looks....the CA's know most of these loans are statute barred but are hoping that if they piss people off, they will get a letter in response. IF a letter of response is an acknowledgement of the loan....then the CA's have accomplished what they set out to do which is to reset the clock.
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billw
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Posted: 08/November/2004 at 1:06pm |
to pigeon & annm04,
To answer your question, no a letter from a paralegal is not a for m of acknowledgement and I will tell you why. Because the letter states (the one my lawyer wrote anyways) the statutes of limitations, and secondly it states that any further activity regarding this "situation" should go thru "my" paralegal. It in no way admits to or denies this claim. Also you should know it is "illegal" for any collection agency to call your work. Check out the Collections Act, it states what they can and cannot do.
I suggest to people to seek legal help in this situation because it is so unclear, see the Canadian Student Loans Act (see my very first note) and discuss it with any form of legal counsel, they will set you straight.
The first meeting you have with any paralegal or lawyer is always free, it a consultation. Bring all your documents and the Canada Student Loans Act when you see them. They will hopefully tell you the truth, because anyone at OSAP sure isn't!
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Islander
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Posted: 08/November/2004 at 2:32pm |
If you must write to them, specifically deny any liability for debt. Do NOT assume that just because you don't explicitly acknowledge it, you're OK.
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Alfred E Newman
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khsu
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Posted: 08/November/2004 at 10:46pm |
No, a letter of response dose not equal to a letter of
acknowledgement. I had the very same question and my paralegal
clarified that.
I don't think it is a good idea to write them by yourself though; you might make legal mistakes that you are not aware of.
If you really don't want to pay and really want to stop their
harrassment, paralegal is really a good option. The cost is
minimal, and all further communication (if any) would be directed to
him or her.
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Islander
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Posted: 09/November/2004 at 12:20am |
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Alfred E Newman
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dolphin
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Posted: 13/January/2005 at 2:52pm |
Johnny, I have read your postings and looked at the Canada Student Financial Assistance Act where it states that the limitation period is 6 years...but I have also read Ontario's new limitations act 2002 ( http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Source/Statutes/English/2 002/S02024_e-SchedB.htm), which clearly states, under section (k) of it's no limitation period, the following:
No limitation period
16. (1) There is no limitation period in respect of,
(a) a proceeding for a declaration if no consequential relief is sought;
(b) a proceeding to enforce an order of a court, or any other order that may be enforced in the same way as an order of a court;
(c) a proceeding to obtain support under the Family Law Act or to enforce a provision for support or maintenance contained in a contract or agreement that could be filed under section 35 of that Act;
(d) a proceeding to enforce an award in an arbitration to which the Arbitration Act, 1991 applies;
(e) a proceeding under section 8 of the Remedies for Organized Crime and Other Unlawful Activities Act, 2001;
(f) a proceeding by a debtor in possession of collateral to redeem it;
(g) a proceeding by a creditor in possession of collateral to realize on it;
(h) a proceeding arising from a sexual assault if at the time of the assault one of the parties to it had charge of the person assaulted, was in a position of trust or authority in relation to the person or was someone on whom he or she was dependent, whether financially or otherwise;
(i) a proceeding to recover money owing to the Crown in respect of,
(i) fines, taxes and penalties, or
(ii) interest that may be added to a tax or penalty under an Act;
(j) a proceeding described in subsection (2) that is brought by,
(i) the Crown, or
(ii) a delivery agent under the Ontario Disability Support Program Act, 1997 or the Ontario Works Act, 1997; or
(k) a proceeding to recover money owing in respect of student loans, awards and grants made under the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities Act, the Canada Student Financial Assistance Act or the Canada Student Loans Act.
Please advise how this impacts the above mentioned Canada Student Financial Assistance Act. Which do we believe??? It seems as though we have no legal ground to stand on. What can we do??
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Hami
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Posted: 18/February/2005 at 1:44pm |
Well after a long silence(5-6mths) from the agency harrassing my wife about her grant "overpayment". I answered the door today and woman handed me document for my wife that looks like a "Small Claims" court summons! She asked if I lived there and what my first name was, nothing else. I found it odd that if this thing is legit shouldn't I be signing somehing, also on the cover of the document there is a circle where a seal should be but it is blank. Any suggestions on how I could verify this is legit? I have to take a closer look at it when I get home from work tonight, but I didn't see any dates for appearances or nothing. I don't know what to do next?!?
One of the last calls my wife received from the agency was at her work where she told the agent to file the claim and they had 30days, and she documented the conversation. Could this be used in court as they have clearly gone beyond the 30days?
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kwelmm
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Posted: 18/February/2005 at 2:07pm |
Sounds all too familiar to me......
It may be a statement of claim from whoever is suing you....it should list the small claims court location.....if you want to know for sure if it is legit you could call the court where the claim is registered.
There won't be any dates for appearances quite yet....if this is legit...you will need to file a defendant claim within I think 20 days of being served. Things can still be resolved without going to court....they (whoever that is) is probably looking for a payment agreement from you and their best way to get that is to sue for garnishment of wages.
Once you find out if this is legit...I would find someone that can help you ... Johnny on this site is very knowledgeable about this... try giving him a call if you have any questions. I lucked out and have a paralegal friend who is taking care of things for me!!!!
Good luck....and try not to loose any sleep over this...although, it is hard not to at times!
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jbleafan
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Posted: 11/April/2005 at 5:19pm |
Hi all,
I wish I had found this forum about sooner. My wife was pressured and harrassed by collection agents for a few mths before agreeing to pay off $410.00. We kept defying them until they threatened her credit rating. BTW, she's been out of school for approx 14yrs!!
We just recieve an official receipt for this amount from the Ontario Shared Services Bureau for income tax purposes. I prepare my own tax returns using Taxwiz. Does any know where I can enter this amount on the tax return...trying to re-coup our loss!
Thanks for your help!
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russ
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Posted: 19/May/2005 at 4:53am |
Hami...How are things working for you. Are you going to court or was it a
sham to get you to pay attention. I am still getting calls and being
threatened for legal action as well now.
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Hami
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Posted: 19/May/2005 at 6:30pm |
We are going to court, but we have a pre-trial first on June 15.
I guess the agency didn't like our offer to pay $50 a week to them,
hehe! They are asking for all court costs to be paid by us also which
we denied in our defence claim just willing to pay the overpayment
amount only.
The nice thing is we havn't have a call or letter from the scum
bags since the claim was filed. Don't really know what to expect
when we go to court, hoping for some luck I guess.
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