Grant Overpayments

Hami,

Do you have legal counsel...even a paralegal??

If you don't, consider getting one!  Don't let these people pull the woe over your eyes and take you for other things more than they can or are entitled to.  They will try.  Just like the lawyers for the HRDC are trying to do with me...it all most makes me laugh at times!!

Good luck Hami on June 15!!

Hami, I had contacted the collections management unit for OSAP last
week after being threatened with a lawsuit where I would be footing the
bill. The ladies name is Ms brunet, and I have an email from her that
states that there will be NO legal action to reclaim OSAP grant
reassessments, but that they may go as far as to take my tax returns. If
you would like me to forward it to you I can.
I also asked about the 2002 ruling where Ont. exempted themselves from
stats barring. Her reply was that it would not apply to assesments from
before then....BUT since there was no specific reference to the OSAP
situation in the Canada student loans act mentioning being stats barred
after six years then there is no time frame for OsAP. In other word she
said reassessments can't be stats barred if the law didn't sat that they
were. My arguement is that if the law dosn't reference them then we have
to go to the next closest thing that applies which would be CSL's

 

 The ruling by Management Board secretariat in conjunction with policy set out by the Ontario Ministry of Training Colleges and Universities states that grant overpayments carry no litigation procedings - either in supreme or Scc. When colelctionagencies get hold of these acount assignments, the last thing that they want you to know is that you will never be sued for the debt. They will try to convince you otherwise simply to entice you to pay the debt.

 As for the limitation issues... Ontario does not carry a limitation period, unfortunately. For the Canada Student Loans Program, the statutes of limitations are federal statutes thus carrying a 6 year limitation period for CSL only. Tis statute does not apply to any of the provinces. Provinces carry their own limitation statutes.

 Now, as for income tax seizures, the ammendment to the federal act (Bill C-28) stipulates that income tax rebates can still be taken and applied to a barred debt. This is outlined in section 16.1- item 2.

 Johnny

 

www.cfwgroup.ca

 

 

Hami send me an email at luftmech@mac.com. That address will be active
for only another month or so. Then I will be able to foreward you the info
that I have.

Here is a related article:

OSAP goes after old students: Province wants many over-payments back; Some grant recipients out of school 23 years (Toronto Star, May 11)
By THERESA BOYLE

More than 5,600 former university students — some who have been out of school for as long as 23 years — are suddenly getting collection notices from the province for OSAP grant overpayments totalling $5.1 million.

The notices are angering some recipients who thought they had paid off student debts years ago.

"Isn't there a statute of limitations on these kinds of things?" Julie Pocock of Waterloo said yesterday.

She recently received a bill for $340 from TCH International, a collection agency hired by the province.

Pocock received a grant from the Ontario Student Assistance Program for approximately $3,000 in 1991-'92 while studying geography at Wilfrid Laurier University. She graduated with a bachelor's degree in 1993 and thought she had squared up her accounts long ago.

"Who knew that the government is secretly digging around in 20-year-old records to scam as much money as possible from people who have already cleared their names," said Pocock, who now works as an admissions specialist at the University of Waterloo.

Ministry spokesman Dave Ross explained that the problem of grant overpayments was first flagged by the provincial auditor back in 1997.

"This is not small potatoes. This is a lot of money," he said.

The auditor had identified $10.5 million in grant overpayments made between 1981 and 1996.

"The overpayments were discovered after reconciliation with other financial information," Ross said.

For example, when students applied for grants, they were asked to estimate how much they planned to earn in wages during the year. They often made more than anticipated, meaning they qualified for less in grants.

"If you put down $5,000 and you made $12,000, then obviously you have to inform the ministry (and say) `Whoops, here's how much it is.'"

An initial batch of 3,663 collection notices, seeking $3.3 million in overpayments, were mailed out during a three-month period beginning November, 2000. But the collection program was put on hold until earlier this year because ministry had trouble proving the money was owed. (The ministry has so far collected $1.5 million of that $3.3 million.)

"When some people ... started asking for documentation, then the collection agencies came back to us and said we need this documentation. There was a realization here that we weren't equipped to provide that information in a very timely and efficient way, so then the whole process was stopped in order for us to get our administrative stuff in order," explained ministry spokesperson Linda Nicolson.

That information is now available, and anyone with questions is invited to call the OSAP accounts receivable department at: 1-800-465-3023.

Another 5,681 collection notices went out in March this year. Individual bills range from $200 to $1,000 and a total of $5.1 million is being sought.

As for the remaining $2.1 million flagged by the auditor, a portion has been written off as bad debts and another portion is in the process of being collected under special repayment arrangements agreed to by the province and debtors.

Pocock is irked that the government has sent a collection agency after her.

Ross said the ministry sent out notices directly to debtors earlier in the year and then turned over all uncollected files to collection agencies in March. That has been standard practice for the province to use collection agencies since 1995, said Ross.

But Pocock said she received no direct notice from the ministry.

No interest is being collected on the outstanding amounts.

Here is yet another strange phenomenon.

The Ontario Ministry receives thousands of consumer complaints about abuse, nasty behavior, unprofessional conduct, and many other serious matters concerning third-party collection agencies. Yet, the province of Ontario willfully uses these same third-party agencies to collect provincial debt.

I dunno folks, but if I were the Province of Ontario, and I knew that collections agents are known for frequent violation of act and in some cases the law, I would be less inclined to hire them to perform the task of debt recovery.

That goes for any government, really.

It makes the provincial ministry, and it's particular departments look really bad.

Johnny

 

If rally investigated, these gant overpayment amounts could very well be statute barred. The Ontario government is finding that there are overpayments years and years after the fact. The limitations for this debt arer 6 years (providing the occurence date is before 2002).

The Ontario government does not sue grant overpayments. Why? One good reason is the isue of limitations. Are they going to tell you if or not a debt is statute barred? Of course, not. They don't want to alert anyone to the fact that they cannot launch any action or proceedings to recover the debt. Otherwise, they would not be able to collect on it.

In the opionion of others, these overpayments may not be calculated properly thus bearing an erroneous amount.

The first thing one might consider is demanding proof of the claim. If ther claim cannot be proven then it is not a valid debt.

As for reduction, that is something that requires a lot of looking into. In order to do that, I would have to be able to see what you particular situation is. In order to do that, you will have to become a client.

If you want to visit my siteand poke around, you are welcome to do so. There are lots of information pieces on the term.

Johnny  

Hey Hami glad to see your still checking in around here. That sounded like
a good first appearance for a court date. Please keep us posted as to how
you continue to make out. I really hope this silly thing comes to an end
soon for all of us. Cheers.

 "In_Disbelief" I'm located in Windsor, the credit agency is CBV Collection Services and repesented by Precision Paralegal out of Milton who was represented by another paralegal service(local) at the pre-trial.  This action was against my wife not me but I went with her and we represented ourselves no paralegal.  The Deputy was extremly helpful and sympathetic, also the paralegal couldn't believe that this had gone this far(he was filled in on the details by us).  The amount claimed was $2550 but they were asking for $2731 one lump sum payment or we would have to pay 2.8% interest with a total of $875 in instalments.

Like I siad above we ammended our defence and havn't heard anything since.

That is interesting that they are trying to charge interest on a grant re-
assessmennt.   I believe that is illegal as well as it going to court. In my
situation they have offered on more then one occasion to reduce the sum by
ten percent as a good will measure. when I last talked to my current agent
and filled her in on how things work her only reply was " ...unfortunatly I still
have to continue contacting you as long as its on my desk !"

It had undertones of yes this is a scam but I am new here and don't want to
be fired yet.