This website is a testimony to the problems Canadian Student Loan borrowers experienced from approximately 1996 to 2008 and until their loans were paid off.

The privatization of the Student Loans system by the Chretien and Martin Liberal governments broke the system and defaulted thousands of borrowers who were trying to pay their loans. There were even stories of suicide due to the harassment of borrowers.

Read the report that I prepared back in 2007 here. Canada Student Loans-The Need for Change Fortunately the new Conservative government at the time revamped the program and fixed the system for new borrowers, but borrowers under the previous program were left with ruined credit and continued harassment from debt collectors.

I call on the Canadian Government to apologize to the borrowers affected by this fiasco and make amends.

Unfortunately the Liberal government is again clobbering the Education system with their upcoming changes to International Student Visas. Yes, there's a problem, but instead of a well thought out plan, they have pulled the emergency brake on the train causing a derailment. This has introduced unprecedented instability for both private and public education institutions who serve both international and local students.

Universities can't plan. I've heard of courses being cut because the government has no process in place for universities to send the newly required acceptance letters to the government.

This means that students who have been accepted can not attend courses that start in the summer 2024 semester. With cut sections, current Canadian students will have trouble getting courses, and may have to switch to part-time which changes their enrollment status and might trigger repayment of their loans or ineligibility for funding. I've seen this before. It wreaks havoc on the student loan borrowers.

Again, the Liberal government has messed up the education environment. Will the new system needed in a rush for the acceptance letters be the new Arrivecan scandal?

I call on the government to implement a slower phased in approach and delay the requirement of the acceptance letters until a process is in place to submit these letters.

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Points: 1798 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/November/2007 at 9:44am
Can we focus on student loans here rather than a tax discussion...

Thanks..
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Points: 12 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote krazybeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/November/2007 at 9:59am
it's not like we went off subject..they are both directly related..but anyways.. i'm just scared that doing my taxes will constitute as "payment" towards my loan and will keep it on my credit report for another 6 years.. i'm trying to get my credit score back at 0. i know it seems very complicated to myself also. maybe getting a credit report would clarify some things.
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Points: 46 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bateman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/November/2007 at 11:05am

I don't believe an involuntary payment constitutes acknowledgement but I'd be interested in getting an answer to the question as well. Hopefully someone can provide a definitive answer.

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Points: 5996 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/November/2007 at 7:45am
When the government seizes you income tax, it is not a voluntary action on your part. Therefore, it cannot be construed as an acknowledgment (admission of liability). They do not want you to know this, mind you. Arming yourself with information is a good safeguard.
 
Johnny
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

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Points: 50 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ottawa Gal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/November/2007 at 8:28am
johnny

i don't understand something..........if the government can seize your taxes, its because it can prove they are owed to them........isn't it?  also, when you sign up to receive your loan and deposit them, you sign a whack of papers that outlines the loan.......that should be enough, in my view, to acknowledge you owe monies and the conditions under which you agree to........it may not show the "entire" balance of multiple transactions, and this may be what y'all mean by "acknowledging the debt", but on a contract, amounts, conditions and signatures are there........i can't see what difference it really makes, except for the "total" which may/may not be in dispute

you admit you are liable, when you sign the contract and if you paid it, you can usually prove it - if there is a misunderstanding of payment - no?  its a contract and likely they are collecting the tax refunds on that basis, no?
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No. It means that debt owed to the Crown can be recovered by way of anchoring liens and confiscating your income tax and/or GST rebate.
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

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Points: 5996 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/November/2007 at 1:38pm
THey don’t do it to prove anything, other than they have recovery power and can excercise that at any time of choosing.
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

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Points: 5996 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/November/2007 at 1:42pm
Now,. a loan agreement is just that - an agreement. If you are referring to how a loan agreement intertwines with a limitation issue, it is clear - they have nothing to do with one another.
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

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Points: 50 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ottawa Gal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/November/2007 at 2:05pm
i would beg to differ that a loan agreement has nothing to do with a statute of limitation or that the government can seize money owed to the crown, with no proof of it -  i was saying it appears the proof needed to seize that money (to prove the debt to the crown), is the signed loan agreement (aka student loan contract)
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Points: 1798 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/November/2007 at 3:35pm
From experience here on the site, just cause the law says something doesnt mean its followed. Taxes have beens seized without apparent documentation, the govt still trys to collect stats barred loans (see the OSAP grant recovery section), and even if the loan is paid to the collection agency, the taxs will still be seized, and tax seizures arent reported to the student loan people for months. And collection laws are ignored cause nobody polices them.

But on another point, I need to raise the issue that we're getting into a situation here on the board where its turning into a legal discussion rather than replies that help the original poster. The load on the website is now very heavy, so please keep replies on focus and to a minimum... and focused on the original question... and need for help.

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A loan agreement is proof that money is owed. That is all. The government knows who owes them money. THey don;t need to cite a loan agreement to gaff tax rebates. THey just do it.
 
 
 
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

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Points: 5996 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/November/2007 at 3:06am

A loan is statute barred because the prescribed period of time expired from the day of it's default. What does this have to do with a loan agreement?

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

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Points: 46 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bateman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/November/2007 at 5:40am
Quote the govt still trys to collect stats barred loans
 
Stats barred doesn't make the loan noncollectable. Stats barred is an absolute defence to any court action but the onus is on the borrower to raise the defence.
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Points: 12 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote krazybeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13/November/2007 at 3:44pm
so even if my loan is stat barred because it was due sept 01; they can still have a lien on my taxes until the day i die?
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Points: 212 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frustrated-guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14/November/2007 at 3:46am
krazybeaver asked
"they can still have a lien on my taxes until the day i die?"
 
could krazy beaver not go to court and say that the  following charter rights are being violated in the crown set off against her taxes:
 
 
7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.
 
I understand fundamental justice to mean they must be fair ie they require a trial before they decide they can take the money.  They crown can not unilaterally decide to take the money, this would not be fair and they would not be abiding by fundamental justice. 
 
15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
 
Every other person has to go to court to garnish monies from you, why can the crown take your tax refund without going to court, this is not EQUAL treatment.  The crown should be treated EQUALLY with everone else.
 
What do the folks with a legal background, eg Bateman and Ottawa Gal think?   Are there Charter issues here?
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Points: 5996 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14/November/2007 at 4:28am

If the loan is Ontario (OSAP), they claim that all loans carry no limitations. Therefore, they anchor liens for the life of the debt. If you can prove that the loan is barred, then they would have to remove the lien unless legislation states otherwise. We all have the right to fairness and justice - so says the charter or rights. However, I would guess that the policy of student loan recovery is not a violation of a right, except when such an action occurs whereas the borrower was placed in tht situation as a result of an error or wrong-doing by the lender and/or it's third-party service provider.

 
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

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Points: 46 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bateman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14/November/2007 at 6:33am
Your understanding of s.15 is just wrong. If you want me to explain why it is wrong I can but that is a long tangent and you can just trust me on it.
 
s.15 though would possibly be useful if it could be shown that one particular group was harmed by a particular aspect of student loan legislation. The SCC has entertained arguments about group rights and, even though I personally am vehemently against group rights, there is some case law involving social assistance legislation.
 
The problem is that with student loans I don't believe any one of the enumerated classes is overrepresented. There might be a slightly larger number of females but not by the significance required. Johnny would know better but just by using this site as my sample it doesn't seem like 90% of people who are having hardship over student loans are female,  of a specific ethnicity, of a specific religion etc.
 
With respect to s.7 the Charter does not deal with property rights so it does not apply. But even if the Charter did address property rights I'm pretty sure the liens would be saved by an application of the Oaks test.
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Points: 50 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ottawa Gal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14/November/2007 at 10:24am
in reply to frustrated guy.......personally, i don't see one.......

#7 is about detention, arrest and incarceration (in a nutshell)

#15 is based on whether you are discriminated based on your gender/sex, race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion,  age or mental or physical disability.

you might have a weak case if you were the only student treated a certain way AND your "status" as a student was included in the prohibited grounds above........

this is not legal advice.....it is my personal opinion......based on 7 years of legal studies.........i don't see how you'd have a snowball's chance in .......well, u know!



its not about how a tax is garnisheed
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Points: 12 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote krazybeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14/November/2007 at 2:06pm
it's actually a loan from NB so that means it should be barred.
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Points: 46 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bateman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15/November/2007 at 12:12am
Quote #7 is about detention, arrest and incarceration (in a nutshell)
 
S.7 is much much broader than that. For example it has been used to strike down anti-private medical insurance legislation. It is also the reason abortion is legal etc S.7 is probably the most versatile quasi-right guaranteed by the Charter.
 
There is some interesting case law involving s.7 and psychological integrity. Basically that security of the person applies not only to the physical body but also to mental. There might be an argument that some of the collection tactics allowed would be considered a  psychological threat. I don't know enough about this to comment. If someone was interested in pursuing this it has a much higher chance of success than anything mentioned in the class action discussion.
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