This website is a testimony to the problems Canadian Student Loan borrowers experienced from approximately 1996 to 2008 and until their loans were paid off.

The privatization of the Student Loans system by the Chretien and Martin Liberal governments broke the system and defaulted thousands of borrowers who were trying to pay their loans. There were even stories of suicide due to the harassment of borrowers.

Read the report that I prepared back in 2007 here. Canada Student Loans-The Need for Change Fortunately the new Conservative government at the time revamped the program and fixed the system for new borrowers, but borrowers under the previous program were left with ruined credit and continued harassment from debt collectors.

I call on the Canadian Government to apologize to the borrowers affected by this fiasco and make amends.

Unfortunately the Liberal government is again clobbering the Education system with their upcoming changes to International Student Visas. Yes, there's a problem, but instead of a well thought out plan, they have pulled the emergency brake on the train causing a derailment. This has introduced unprecedented instability for both private and public education institutions who serve both international and local students.

Universities can't plan. I've heard of courses being cut because the government has no process in place for universities to send the newly required acceptance letters to the government.

This means that students who have been accepted can not attend courses that start in the summer 2024 semester. With cut sections, current Canadian students will have trouble getting courses, and may have to switch to part-time which changes their enrollment status and might trigger repayment of their loans or ineligibility for funding. I've seen this before. It wreaks havoc on the student loan borrowers.

Again, the Liberal government has messed up the education environment. Will the new system needed in a rush for the acceptance letters be the new Arrivecan scandal?

I call on the government to implement a slower phased in approach and delay the requirement of the acceptance letters until a process is in place to submit these letters.


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Hunter2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunter2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/March/2005 at 12:15pm
reddragon
I understand where you are coming from. I feel my education was not worth the precarious postion it places both myself and my family. In the case of student loans for undergrad degrees that do not lead to any specific career the system needs to be revamped.
A couple of ideas
.1..have the students themselves submit a proposal of payment prior to receiving loans..inclusive of a "what if I don't finish my degree clause" Let thme make the choice eyes wide open.

2... Take a look at altering tuitions depending on income rather than giving out loans(ie a 22 year old mom working part time at a gas station pays 50$ per class..thereby enabling her to take part time classes and earn an education w/o going kneedeep in debt)

3...amend the bankruptcy act to 5 years

4...alternative to bankruptcy..make loan repayment income contingent(and not by spreading out over 15 years)...if you are making 2000 a month your payments are 5% of your income and you have to make your best effort over 5 years at which time you are revaluated and perhaps forgiven your debt.

Anyway these ideas just a tiny sampling of ways to make things better. We can make it better and make our own luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunter2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/March/2005 at 12:17pm
Johnny I had asked you some specific questions further up in the thread but I think they got lost with the new postings.
Would you mind answering them please?
Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/March/2005 at 5:04pm

 

 Hunter2,

 My apologies.

 I think this is the question you are referring to:

 "Johnny..I see what you mean. In such a case who exactly does the "examining" to determine hardship? Is there any type of pre existing criteria they go by or is it a subjective case by case approach?"

 The Supreme Court Justice and Counsel to The Canada Student loans Program is who examines the matter at hand. The Crown's counsel with examine and cross-examine to opose the discharge in the event that they are not satisfied that the bankrupt has acted in good faith.

 The following is a case hearing for discharge under a section 178 in the Province of British Columbia.It will give you an idea of how tough it is.

  

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF BRITISH COLUMBIA

Citation:

Canada(Attorney General) v. Cummings,

2003 BCSC 1530

Date: 20031008


Docket: 31502

Registry: Vernon

IN THE MATTER OF THE BANKRUPTCY

OF CHRISTOHER WAYNE CUMMINGS

Between:

ATTORNEY GENERAL OF CANADA

CREDITOR

And

CHRISTOPHER WAYNE CUMMINGS

BANKRUPT


Before: The Honourable Mr. Justice Goepel

Reasons for Judgment

Appearing In Person:

C.W. Cummings

Counsel for Attorney General of Canada, Canada Student Loans:

L.C. Turner

Date and Place of Hearing:

September 22, 2003

Kelowna, B.C.


INTRODUCTION

[1]          The Attorney General of Canada appeals an order of a Master made July 2, 2003, granting Mr. Christopher Cummings an absolute discharge from bankruptcy. Mr. Cummings' outstanding debts consisted almost entirely of student loans.

BACKGROUND

[2]          From 1988 until 1992, Mr. Cummings attended Simon Fraser University. He graduated in August 1992 with an Honours degree in Geography. During his studies, he borrowed $15,195 from the Canada Student Loans Program.

[3]          Subsequent to graduation, he was unable to obtain employment in a field for which he was qualified. He began work as a bartender. In 1993, after having failed to negotiate an extension of his interest-free status, he defaulted on his loan payments.

[4]          In May 1994, Mr. Cummings and his wife moved to South Korea where he obtained employment as an English teacher. He remained in South Korea until May 1998. By November 1997, he had saved the equivalent of approximately $40,000 Canadian held in Korean currency. Subsequent devaluation of the Korean Won reduced his savings by half. Mr. Cummings and his wife returned to Canada in May 1998 with approximately $20,000 in savings.

[5]          In the fall of 1998, Mr. Cummings was accepted into the Computer Systems Operation and Management Program at the University College of the Cariboo in Kamloops. Mr. Cummings indicates that his plan was to complete the program in order to get a good job that would give him the financial ability to address his outstanding debts.

[6]          In December 1998, Mr. Cummings' wife, who suffers from epilepsy, became pregnant. Because she was pregnant, her medication had to be reduced to a minimum level making it impossible for her to work. Their daughter was born in August 1999. His wife has not returned to work.

[7]          Mr. Cummings is presently employed in the computer field as a computer port developer. That employment opportunity arose from a cooperative education work semester. Since April 2003, he has been earning $23.50 per hour. Because of his employment, he is still one semester short of completing his computer program. He must complete the program by January 2005. If he does not complete the program, his opportunities for work in the computer field will be limited.

[8]          As of December 16, 1994, the outstanding balance on Mr. Cummings' Canada Student Loan was $16,450.67. In 1995 he made one voluntary payment of $300.00. On March 21, 1996, by way of set off from a tax refund, $1,072.60 was paid toward the loan and on September 20, 2000, a further $1,387 was recovered. On October 23, 2000, the Attorney General of Canada obtained a judgment against Mr. Cummings in the amount of $22,658.25.

[9]          Mr. Cummings agreed to pay $150.00 per month on the judgment until he completed his education, at which time the payment scheduled would be reviewed. Between February 1, 2001 and September 5, 2002 Mr. Cummings made 18 payments totalling $2,700.00. A further $274.53 was recovered by way of set off. In total, Mr. Cummings has paid $5,646.47. The amount now owing, including interest, is $22,991.60.

[10]     Mr. Cummings made an assignment into bankruptcy on October 8, 2002. His liabilities totalled $28,997.84. All but $170 of his liabilities arose from student loans. As of October 8, 2002 he owed the Provincial student program $6,327.84 and the Canadian Student Loan program $22,500.00.

DISCUSSION

[11]     Because the bankruptcy was filed just over ten years after Mr. Cummings' last period of study, s. 178(1)(g) of the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act, R.S.C. 1985, C. B-3 does not apply. Mr. Cummings' discharge must be considered under the general principles of the Act.

[12]     In Re Legault (1994), 88 B.C.L.R. (2d) 242 (C.A.), the court noted that student loans have special characteristics in that they are only made on proof of financial need and are expected to be repaid from future earnings. In considering student loans in the context of a discharge application, Mr. Justice Hollinrake, speaking for the majority, held at ¶ 48:

...that on a discharge application, while student loans are not to be treated differently from other debts in terms of the principles to be applied by the court, the court can and should, as part of its deliberations, be mindful of the unique characteristics of a student loan. I emphasize again that, in my opinion, the court should not focus on the fact that the debt was created through a student loan program to the extent that the general principles which apply on a discharge application are in any way lessened.

[13]     In Legault, Mr. Justice Hollinrake held that in determining the appropriateness of a discharge it was open to the court to consider the factors set out by Mr. Justice Macdonald in Re Van Steenes (1992), 13 C.B.R. (3d) 131 (B.C.S.C.), including: the prejudice to a single significant creditor, the public interest in upholding student loan programs, the bankrupt's failure to make reasonable efforts to pay and the bankrupt's present and future capacity to pay. Mr. Justice Hollinrake cautioned that those considerations cannot be given such emphasis that the conditions attached to a discharge will "tie a millstone around a man's neck".

[14]     The Master in brief reasons granted Mr. Cummings an absolute discharge. He stated:

Considering the situation since Mr. Cummings graduated in 1992, and the circumstances in which he presently finds himself, that is to say, supporting an epileptic wife and a child, it is my view - and I am going to exercise my discretion - to grant him an absolute discharge.

[15]     In Patterson v. Royal Bank (1984), 59 B.C.L.R. 234 (C.A.), the Court of Appeal stated that an appellate court may disturb a decision regarding a discharge from bankruptcy if the judge misconstrued a fact, violated a principle of law or imposed conditions that are too severe. In Re Perlman (1993), 22 C.B.R. (3d) 248 (B.C.S.C.), Mr. Justice Tysoe held that the criteria articulated in Patterson apply equally to a judge considering an appeal of a registrar's order regarding a discharge.

[16]     I am satisfied that by emphasizing Mr. Cummings' present situation the Master failed to properly consider the principles applicable to a discharge from bankruptcy when student loans are involved.

[17]     Mr. Cummings graduated from university in 1992. Other than one $300 payment in 1995, he made no attempt subsequent to graduation to pay down his student loans. He defaulted on the student loans within months of graduation. In 1994, Mr. Cummings and his wife left for Korea, where they saved substantial sums of money, while ignoring the obligations Mr. Cummings had incurred.

[18]     When they returned to Canada in 1998 with $20,000 in savings, Mr. Cummings made no attempt to reduce his student loan debt. It was only after the Attorney General of Canada took judgment against him that he began to repay his obligations.

[19]     Mr. Cummings is presently earning in excess of $23 an hour. I am told his annual wage is approximately $49,000.00. It would appear that his earnings presently exceed his expenses by some $400.00 a month.

[20]     Although Mr. Cummings has indicated his present financial position may not be as rosy as it appears because of the economic problems facing his employer and the potential costs of returning to school to complete his program of studies, he has shown the ability to earn income. He has the present and future capacity to make payments.

[21]     Taking all of the circumstances into account, I have concluded that an absolute discharge is not appropriate in this case. Mr. Cummings discharge from bankruptcy will be conditional upon payment to the Trustee of an additional $9,600.00. He shall pay that amount at a minimum rate of $200 a month commencing November 1, 2003 and he may pay such greater amounts as he chooses in order to accelerate the date of final payment and discharge.

"R.B.T. Goepel, J."
The Honourable Mr. Justice R.B.T. Goepel

 

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silence2long Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2005 at 3:37am

Johnny,

I have read the above posting and am a little curious as to why this person is able too bankrupt his student loans considering he returned to school in 1998...........would that not be his last period of study ??

Resetting the clock on the ten-year rule ?? 

 

silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silence2long Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2005 at 3:42am
By the way..........I agree with the clause 21..........this guy should have to pay that amount !!!! 
silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunter2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2005 at 6:24am
Johnny
Thank you! Interesting. so in the case of someone who should have had capacity to pay the judgement is for payment. In my opinion, that was fair, had this individual been making payments from Korea he could have easily paid off the debt. The devaluation of the Won would have been less signifigant to him had he been making timely payments.
Where can I find case law like this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote polyhymnia61 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2005 at 10:49am

Okay...I thought I was just being a biatch, but apparently s2 and h2 agree with me...fair judgement, I think.

Poly

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2005 at 2:15pm

 

 Silence,

 In this public record, the bankrupt tried to have the debt discharged under section 178 but was rejected.

 Now, as for the return to studies after the fact ... the BIA stipulates that "a bankrupt may apply to the court to have a student loan discharged once the bankrupt has ceased to be a full or part-time student for 10 years." The motion for discharge was denied based on all sorts of issues.

 In Discussions outlined in section 11 and 12, it clearly reflects that the motion for discharge will be rejected based on the fact that "it does not apply" in this bankrupt's case.

 Hunter2,

 I have all kinds of this stuff. I will be running them on my site in the near future so people can become even more aware.

 Johnny

  

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mersan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2005 at 2:42pm

My question is should there not been a program in 1992-1993 that would have extended interest relief or perhaps debt reduction.  Once you are in default in Canada you can't get out and so after this there is really no incentive to repay the loan.  Provide the borrower with incentive such as the ability through regular payments to remove the default.  The problem is there are not enough options if one runs into trouble it seems.  For criminal offenses there are pardons for Canada student loans it is life.  

It was a very fair decision in the end. 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunter2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2005 at 4:39pm
Johnny
I cannot wait!
Your site looks very nice by the way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silence2long Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/March/2005 at 2:33pm

Johnny I just re-read sections 11 and 12 and followed the link........ I know nothing about bankrupty because is has always been a non-issue for me.

The reason that I thought that he was able to bankrupt the student loans is because of the conditional discharge....to the tune of $9600.

I think that is a pretty good shake for him considering this clause,

[10]     Mr. Cummings made an assignment into bankruptcy on October 8, 2002. His liabilities totalled $28,997.84. All but $170 of his liabilities arose from student loans. As of October 8, 2002 he owed the Provincial student program $6,327.84 and the Canadian Student Loan program $22,500.00.

Please correct me if I am wrong............when he pays the $9600 he will then be discharged.........the $9600 is 1/3 of what he owes........it will not collect any interest....$9600 is 9600 ???  And after that he starts anew...once the bankrupty clears.  The return to school only prevented him from getting a total discharge of the student loans???

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/March/2005 at 3:08pm

 

 In bankruptcy, there are only two ways out - and thatis discharge or discharged with conditions attached. Int his case, conditions were attached.

 There is also no mention of what the trustee has recieved from the bankrupt as contribution to the lenders. The case clearly stipulatyes payment of an "additional" amount of $9600. There is also no mention of the Province oposing anythig at all. This was only a hearing based on the Canada student loan.

 Yes, when the $9600.00 is paid, the discharge will be absolute. Is it only a percentage of the debt? That remains unknown becasue of the missing information inthis case. The court rulled that an "additional" payment "to the trustee" of $9600.00 be paid. what was paid to the trustee as contribution, if any?

 At the end of the day, dude is discharged once an additional $9600.00 is paid to the trustee.

Call the superintendant of bankruptcy in Ottawa and quote this case #. Their office will tell you.

 

John LeBlanc
The Canadian Financial Wellness Group
 
Tel: (902) 464-8727
 

  

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silence2long Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/March/2005 at 3:32pm

Sorry........my mistake.......I thought that was all the information.

I thought that was the point of why you posted it Johnny.... to show that it was over-ruled and that he didn't get an absolute discharge.

I thought you knew the outcome........I am not interested in calling the superintendant of bankrupty.

I guess I read the hearing from an unknowlegeble point of view that the additional 9600 was in addition to the amount that he had paid in the past on his student loans

Thanks for the correction.

silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/March/2005 at 4:05pm

 

 Silence,

 I was not correcting you.

 There is only one point as to why I posted this piece of information and it was part of  my answer to a question asked by Hunter2. This person wanted to know by case examples that outline how these hearings are adjudicated and decided. So, I posted this information that gives great detail as to how a motion for discharge works.

 I am not a bankruptcy administrator, therefore, I do not profess or work in within those borders. Top better answer your questions as to outcome or amount, it would be better if you consulted with one who actually has access tot his particular case - such as the Superintendant of bankruptcy, The HRDC, Attorney General of Canada (Department of Justice).

 

John LeBlanc
The Canadian Financial Wellness Group
 
Tel: (902) 464-8727
 

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silence2long Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/March/2005 at 4:26pm

Johnny,

I realize you posted it in response to Hunter.......it was interesting to read........thanks for posting it.

If anyone has the time to call the superintendant of bankrupty and is interested in what they have to say....please post up.....

I leave in the morning before their I imagine 8:00-4:00 office hours and arrive home later than 4:00....so it leaves me out of the loop.  My lunch break is split in two chunks which leaves it impossible to go to a payphone 20 km away........to hold on the I presume again an automated telephone answerer.......... 

I know I am pestimistic in finding the answer to this burning question, but it is my reality......... I call it uninterested in calling the superintendant.......... so if someone is optimistic about finding the answer than great.

silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long
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silence2long
My impression is that it was not the return to school persay because the original judge discharged it totally. However CSL appealed and this was the new set of terms put forth by the adjudicator.
I "think" that what happened here is that it was a conditional discharge based on the unique circumstances of this particular case. Obviously the two governing bodies disagreeing...the first ruled total discharge whereas the second ruling makes it look like it was 1/3 payback. But from my understanding of what was posted..yes 9600 is what he owed and no interest would NOT continue to accrue on that amount.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reddragon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/March/2005 at 6:50am
Originally posted by Hunter2 Hunter2 wrote:

reddragon


Anyway these ideas just a tiny sampling of ways to make things better. We can make it better and make our own luck.


And in the meantime, I understand why lots of students or ex-students look towards prostitution to solve their problems.  Let's be honest, being in this situation, when it's a question of survival, it's easy to make unethical choices when your back is against the wall.  Either way... hard to find a reason to live.  I think I need help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote momof2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/March/2005 at 7:36am

red

hang in there.  what kind of help are you looking for ?  maybe we can help steer you in the right direction. 

a reason to live ?  i'm sure there are plenty.  we can help you figure them out.  if you want to talk, email me at csdmomof2@yahoo.ca .  it'll keep my mind off my problems for a while, and i'm a pretty good listener.

 

professionals built the titanic but amateurs built the ark...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunter2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/March/2005 at 8:10am
Red
Hang on its so difficult when you are down and life is so bleak. When you cannot find reasons to live its time to reach out. Please e-mail me at cavanaghhunter@yahoo.com if you need someone to listen. Or reach out to family/friends/your doctor. Please take the time to reach out to someone.
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