This website is a testimony to the problems Canadian Student Loan borrowers experienced from approximately 1996 to 2008 and until their loans were paid off.

The privatization of the Student Loans system by the Chretien and Martin Liberal governments broke the system and defaulted thousands of borrowers who were trying to pay their loans. There were even stories of suicide due to the harassment of borrowers.

Read the report that I prepared back in 2007 here. Canada Student Loans-The Need for Change Fortunately the new Conservative government at the time revamped the program and fixed the system for new borrowers, but borrowers under the previous program were left with ruined credit and continued harassment from debt collectors.

I call on the Canadian Government to apologize to the borrowers affected by this fiasco and make amends.

Unfortunately the Liberal government is again clobbering the Education system with their upcoming changes to International Student Visas. Yes, there's a problem, but instead of a well thought out plan, they have pulled the emergency brake on the train causing a derailment. This has introduced unprecedented instability for both private and public education institutions who serve both international and local students.

Universities can't plan. I've heard of courses being cut because the government has no process in place for universities to send the newly required acceptance letters to the government.

This means that students who have been accepted can not attend courses that start in the summer 2024 semester. With cut sections, current Canadian students will have trouble getting courses, and may have to switch to part-time which changes their enrollment status and might trigger repayment of their loans or ineligibility for funding. I've seen this before. It wreaks havoc on the student loan borrowers.

Again, the Liberal government has messed up the education environment. Will the new system needed in a rush for the acceptance letters be the new Arrivecan scandal?

I call on the government to implement a slower phased in approach and delay the requirement of the acceptance letters until a process is in place to submit these letters.


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    Posted: 16/March/2005 at 4:35pm

Hi All;

I'm sure my story issues are the same as many others on these forums..but here goes.

Basically, I've advised NCO financial that I'm willing to pay my S.Loan, and that I need time to do so.  I'm paying them $25.00 a month at the moment, although I missed a payment in February.  (I sent a make-up payment in March).  It's been threatened that I will be sued, that NCO will do vehicle search (which I will be billed for) so that they can put a lien on my car. (Which I don't have.)  I was advised that I would have a lien put on my home, and that my bank account would be garnished.  This was after I explained that my wages were already being garnished at 30% by the government regarding another matter.  (Thanks for tipping me off...he said.) 

Other pleasant tactics from the agent were instilling fear (or at least trying to) by advising me that once my bank account was garnished, coupled with my CRTC garnishment, I'd have no money for mortgage, food, bills, etc.  And that I should consider whether I've made a wise decision for my family if I was going to cause them to starve and live with no utilities...etc...etc...etc.  Very pleasant stuff.

What the agent has going for him, is that I have been avoiding his phone calls in the last couple of months, and he says that this will show as 'non-compliance' to a judge. 

Questions:

1.  Am I likely to be sued over a $7000.00 S.Loan from a collection agency in another province.

2.  What threats can NCO actually carry out?

3.  Does such a minimal payment suffice for the time being until I'm in a position where I can move my financial attention to this loan? (Probably 6 months from now)

4.  How can I stop the abuse from this company?

Thanks...please respond...just writing this out has made me a little more clear-headed about it all...however some feedback would be great!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kwelmm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16/March/2005 at 4:57pm

skkbyers,

I can answer some of your questions...the other ones I'll leave for the more knowledgeable..hehehe!

2.  What threats can NCO actually carry out? 

None...it's the lender that gives permission for referrals for justice.  Some threats are just that--threats!

3.  Does such a minimal payment suffice for the time being until I'm in a position where I can move my financial attention to this loan? (Probably 6 months from now)

Yes.  The CAs will always want more and instill whatever fear they can to achieve this.  Immediate payment can not be refused.

4.  How can I stop the abuse from this company?

With solid evidence (taped phone calls) that the abuse has occurred.  Filing a complaint to the proper people who can address the complaint.  Most complaints need "meat" to substantiate any wrongdoing.

Hope this has helped!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/March/2005 at 4:40am

 

 Skybers,

 1) Can you be sued?

... Yes, if the circumstances warrant such activity. Anyone can be sued, really. It is redundant to sue if there are no avenues of execution. With CSL, the rules are strict when it involves a "referral for justice".

An agency can refer a CSL for justice providing that all steps have been taken to secure a payment arrangement have been exhausted, and complete non-compliance on behalf of the loan debtor.

Will I be sued? 

For CSL, the chances are greater in the event that complete non-compliance is evident and documented.

Here are the directives regarding an agencies referral for justice policy delegated from the HRDC:

No CSL client shall be referred for justice by the PCA collector if:

1) a payment has been recieved within 6 months prior to the referral

2) the loan is becoming stats barred within 12 months of the refferal

3) all of the neccessary collection letters have not been issued, and one final call to secure a payment arrangement

4) the CSL client is not gainfully employed

5) There is no documentation or substantiation of a CSL client's refusal to pay

6)A financial assessment and capcity form has been returned detailing hardship and disability; including all proof for substantiation

7)the account placement to the agency is less than 6 months old

 

John LeBlanc
The Canadian Financial Wellness Group
 
Tel: (902) 464-8727
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/March/2005 at 4:43am

 

 To all,

 Agency collectors are trained for one thing only - to collect money. That is it. They aren't trained to help re-negotiate terms (advocate) with your creditors (their clients), nor are they trained to help you in the manner that they say they are. Their objective is to do whatever they can to collect the debt, or say whatever they can to see to it that you act immediately. Remember, your creditors have washed their hands of your account. When this happens, there is usually no way out of it unless you pay it, or prove that you do not owe it.

 Collection agencies follow the same pattern(s) of business since their evolution into the the business world. Historically, they have determined that "imposing fear" and agression is their ticket to achieving their goals of account recovery. They do not feel that being "nice" and "friendly" (like traditional customer service representation should be) is effective to their cause. They claim that by being nice, courteous, and friendly gives a debtor an escape rout to avoid the "urgency". They are simply under the assumption that their creditor was once friendly, nice, and courteous and look what happened. This is their business psychology.

 Collectors operate on a "time management" structure in most part. They are traqined and required to collect as much money from people within a short period of time. In return, this produces a) greater results for their client base(s), more commission revenues for the agency, and more potential for the collectors to earn some commission in the process. It is pretty simple (and sinful).

 In order to capitalize on time management, agencies have developed strategies to work with this demand. They develop "collection scripts" that newly instated collectors follow when talking with debtors. Once they have growen a bit in the business, collectors usually develop their own "style" of collecting. The script that new collectors (as well as some seasoned collectors) use is "first contact" objective. This objective is used by several agencies ver-batum with the only difference being the "name" that they call it. For instance, the initial contact script is called the "5-point blast" by many of these agencies. Some call it the "power dunn" or "power dunning a debtor". Others call it the "initial hit". The most creative term for this is called 16 point asset search" which means that they are to probe for information. It is quite comical if you look at their logic behind it all.

  The time management objective that agencies impose on collectors is the "egg timer" rule while administering the first call (blast,dunn, etc.). They like collectors to go in and get out within a just a few minurtes and then move on to another file.. then repeat the process until they go home for the day. In moist cases, this never works because it takes alot of time to gain control. They just continue to believe that this ancient system is good and viable. In a few cases it does work for those debtors who are easily intimidated.

 I hope this may be useful to some of you.

 

John LeBlanc
The Canadian Financial Wellness Group
 
Tel: (902) 464-8727
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Observer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/March/2005 at 6:05am

Johnny with Regard to your Post on the agencies, and having been involved all I can say is AMEN!

Allow mew to add a couple of other items - this is from an CA training manual preface -

When talking about collections the word "assertiveness" often comes up, as in: "Susie needs some assertiveness training in her collection effort." But exactly what do we mean by the term. We’re going to look at what makes up "assertiveness", and thirteen tips for being more assertive, in particular when doing collections. Generally, we’re talking about assertiveness in terms of calling people and asking for money, but there are all sorts of other situations where we need to be assertive, and many of our tips apply broadly.

Here’s something most people don’t understand about assertiveness. It’s all about three things – courage, confidence, and the ability to control the conversation. Think of them as "the other three Cs of credit." Sort out those three things and you’re home and in the $$$s. So here are our thirteen assertiveness tips.

Courage tips

1. You're in the right. The customers haven't paid. They are therefore in the wrong. They should feel guilty (and in many cases they will), not you. They don’t need the money more than your company or you. They contracted to pay by a certain date and they haven’t. You are in the position of power.

2. Role plays help you to do things you’re scared to do. Even practicing in front of a mirror can be useful or with an associate.

3. Don’t mistake aggression for assertiveness. Be confident. Many of the collection problems we see stem from people being scared to talk to debtors. Sometimes people screw up their courage to deal with an unpleasant situation by becoming aggressive or angry. Anger can be a good thing. It forces us to deal with things we might not otherwise deal with.

Confidence tips

4. Be optimistic in what you ask for. A collector at a recent seminar talked of coming to a compromise with a customer over a dispute. The customer offered to pay $2000 in settlement just as she was about to ask for $1500. Even if you have to come down, you put yourself in a better position by starting high.

5. People speak too fast when they are nervous. Make a point of slowing down. Put pauses between your sentences. You’ll sound more confident which is more important for your results than actually being confident. And from a practical point of view, nothing undermines confidence like being asked to repeat your name, where you’re from, and what you’re calling about. Make sure they hear it the first time.

6. Overconfidence can be as bad as lack of confidence. You perhaps see this most obviously when you try to draw someone’s attention to a debt and the amount owing , only to have them insist that there was a mistake, or that if there was it was someone else’s mistake. You are not wrong neither is the company, remember our records are always right.

7. Avoid rising terminal pitch. Say that sentence aloud as if it were a question and you’ll hear what I mean. Try to keep your voice at a normal or lower level at the end of non-question sentences. This will make you sound more confident and in control.

8. Sound as if you assume that the customer will pay. "This needs to be paid. Can you get a cheque in the mail today?" Notice that the question is not whether the customer will pay – that’s assumed – but whether they can get the cheque in the mail today. People will often go along with an assumption, but will refuse a tentatively made request. Your tone of voice, generally, is crucial. You can say something and sound confident and right, or say the same thing and sound tentative and defensive.

9. Use your authority. Compliance increases with the proximity of authority - the closer you are to authority, the more likely you are to be obedient. Debtors comply with requests from managers more than requests from junior staff. Titles can be influential – they can indicate that you have considerable expertise and are to be obeyed as a superior. Names can be altered to increase the perception of authority – Nicole may sound more senior than Nikki. Consider the difference between "Elizabeth Windsor, national student loans default manager", and "Lizzy, from the ******** Agency".

10. Silence is golden. Ask for payment confidently, then stop. Let them fill the silence. We are conditioned from childhood to fill gaps in conversation. People are usually not happy to pause and consider a question carefully before answering.

Controlling-the-conversation tips

11. The ability to interrupt is a key skill. Interrupt if the debtor starts to wander from the topic. There are more tricks for doing this than we have space for, but a good one is to use the customer’s name. This generally makes them stop and listen. Joe (always use their first name), first we need to…

12. Stay in control of the conversation. You seize control, first by being the one who sets the agenda – that is, tells them what the two of you are going to talk about – second, by asking questions (which necessarily determine what the other party will say next), and third, by recapping on who is to do what and when.

Hope this gives you some insights.

Observer

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/March/2005 at 11:23am

 

 Observer,

 I say, Amen brother. You preach, I'll turn the pages. That is exactly how it is.

 The ultimate goal from the collector's perspective is to gain control of the call - and the overall situation. That is the power they seek because it is considered "motivation". When that motivation is created, the debtor will do all of the work for the colector. ha ha ha. It is the most common business psychology in the industry. You remember that old employee training technique that involved the "egg timer"? Time is money - and the quicker a debtor is motivated - the easier the job is - and more money in commission is earned.

 Here is the equation (in Layman's terms) to their recipe for success:

 During the opening stages of the account while new (Initial Call):

 Hit for pif + motivate debtor by doing whatever works + deliver deadline - overcome objections + delivering ultimatums = Productivity in time management and recovery by process. This is part of it's science. All in four minutes or less. 

 Lifestyles of sick and commercially twisted.

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Observer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/March/2005 at 11:56am

Amen and pass the collection plate....LOL Big smile

The one certain fact is if collection agencies developed a more consultative approach and worked with the people in financial straits they would, over the long term, have the accounts paid in full and have debtors screaming praises.

However in this world of the quarterly profit report and in the CA world of "what's on the board today" we can expect a further degradation of contact with CAs. The whole approach is set by management, who themselves in most cases, came up through the collection ranks.

But there is hope, as long as there are forums like this, people like John and you (the people of this forum) ready to talk and expose the problems there may be, no strike that, there is hope for reform.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Observer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/March/2005 at 12:15pm

How the heck do I sart a new topic on this board???? HELP!!! Confused

I have some items to post but cannot find how to start a new thread!

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote momof2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/March/2005 at 12:42pm

observer

very very top of page - right hand side where the topic is

OR bottom right south of the post reply screen

professionals built the titanic but amateurs built the ark...
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Thanks Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WantOut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/March/2005 at 12:02pm

Can I just say --- Observer and Johnny --- you two are a GODSEND!!!  Knowledge really is power, and I for one am very grateful that you are sharing the above power with all of us.

Keep the faith!  Once more people are aware of the things you are teaching us, and more people start to make more noise, things can only change ...... (I know, said with all optimism)

In order to discover new lands, one must be willing to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Observer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/March/2005 at 12:30pm

They don't have "blushing" emoticon so suffice say Blush!

Thanks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kwelmm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/March/2005 at 12:51pm
Observer............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kwelmm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/March/2005 at 12:53pm
Observer...I think you should post those courage tips on cfw site...copy it and paste it in....of course, you'd have to become a member first...hehehe!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18/March/2005 at 4:10pm

 

 Wantout,

 You are welcome.  

 

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