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Iknowalotofstuff 
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Joined: 29/September/2008
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 Topic: Just want to give up
Posted: 04/December/2009 at 12:58am |
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Posted: 03/December/2009 at 6:36pm |
This is turning into a dialogue between Johnny and Iknowalot. The focus of this board is to help the initial posters, not an argument about theory. This discussion or argument is going on in too many forums...
I knowalot... please email John and take this discussion off line unless it is answering a specific question posted here.
Thanks
Mark
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Mark OMeara
Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain
https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024
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Iknowalotofstuff
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Posted: 03/December/2009 at 4:01pm |
I have assisted about 200 former bankrupts make s. 178 1.1 applications. Less than 10% have been opposed. In the vast majority of the cases relief is granted on consent. I am as thorough in these applications as you appear to be with your involuntary proposals. The government does not oppose every application. This I know for a fact.
Did you read the case in the link I posted above?
I may send you a copy of a few orders that indicate that there is np government opposition to relief.
When their is no federal loan just the bank risk loan, there has never been an opposition. CIBC, Soctiabank, RBC .... no opposition. They never send anyone.
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 03/December/2009 at 11:04am |
Each case is unique. The Crown will always oppose, though. I know this, you see. It is part of my history. I am not opposed to working together at all. I will bein Toronto in January to begin the process of putting an office there. Perhaps we can meet and talk.
Johnny
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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Iknowalotofstuff
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Posted: 03/December/2009 at 6:59am |
http://www.courts.ns.ca/decisions_recent/documents/2009nssc211.pdf
Why not read this case. There are several others posted on the net. This registrar acted with due diligence even with federal opposition and found that the applicant qualified for relief.
I only assist those who can meet the test.
Why not find me one of your worst cases and lets see if we can't work together to get them hardship relief.
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 03/December/2009 at 1:48am |
 Iknowalotofstuff wrote:
Are you familiar with the Ontario Association of Credit Counselling Services, a non profit organization providing credit counselling services through member agencies. I ran one of their agencies for 20 years. I know about the alternatives to bankruptcy (voluntary arrangements, OPD, proposals, etc.) . |
Yes I am familiar with non profit collection agencies. Debt poolers, as they are otherwise known as. They get paid by the creditors and that is actually who they are really working for. They earn their commission as a collection agency, which they like to call their "fair share". They also kick you out of the debt pool if you miss payments, and leave you bloody and battered as you were when you first came in through the front door. Their primary function is to debt pool, which is actually the same model as bankrupty's Orderly Payment of Debts program. These groups are connected to the financial communities and if you look at their bank at their financial statements on line (which are accessible to the public online through Canada Revenue Agency), you will see that they are clearly profiting organizations raking in millions and millions. The board of their directors is qwuite interesting also to say the least. Bank reps, political personalities, even Veronica Maidman from Equifax Canada was or is still on board. Businesses have to profit to survive, or at least cover costs and earn enough to live - which is the case I wouldn't have it any other way. If you choose to argue this point, I can demonstrate to you if you prefer.
OPD and CP's are bankrupty. They are clearly described in the BIA as bankruptcy proceedings, and also by law. An alternative is something other than bankruptcy. Just a FYI.[/QUOTE]
Iknowalotofstuff wrote:
Have you ever had a client go through the 178 1.1 process or a negative result from an application? You seem so negative against a simple process that could give an honest but unfortunate debtor a fresh start free of oppressive debt, provide for their financial rehabilitation and reintegration into society. If you want people to consider all options, don't you have to consider them as well. |
My clients who have participated in bankruptcy proceedings in the past choose not to revisit any of those proceedings. Besides, they earn their fresh start in more productive ways. I am not negative against the process, and if it works for someone who is experiencing hardship with extenuating circumstances, that is great! However, I totally disagree with you about your fresh start comment. A fresh start does not begin as debt free. A fresh start begins with an improved outlook, confidence, and awareness.
Iknowalotofstuff wrote:
You make is it sound like the federal and provincial governments routinely oppose relief when in effect the opposite is true. |
Yeah? Well, you go talk with the guys and gals at CLAS and CRA and get their take on it.
Iknowalotofstuff wrote:
As for bank risk loans, I have never had a bank oppose relief especially the CIBC. Registrars are independent of the government and often rule in favour of the debtor when applications are opposed. |
I was not talking about banks. I am also aware of your relationship with CIBC.
Registrars may be independant of the government, but they are required by law to make rulings in a lawful and unbiased manner. If there are registrars that are running around ruling in favor of bankrupts without proper assessment and due diligence, then they should be held accountable by the system. Remember, those that frustrate the system make it bad for those who are honest willing participants who want to do what is right. The registrars are required to ensure that the bankrupt is acting in good faith and so on. In cases other than hardship with extenuating circumstances, bankrupts approaching the bench to excercise section 178 (as a post-bakruptcy) are likely to be tagged with a conditional pending some form of contribution, only in the event that the bankrupt is assessed as being able to contribute.
Look, my take on bankruptcy is that it is not consumer friendly. It does one thing. It bankrupts you. It does not provide any social, socioeconomic, or vital counseling in preparation post-bankruptcy. It is a black and white program. 18th century.
Johnny
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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Iknowalotofstuff
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Posted: 02/December/2009 at 4:21pm |
The filing fee for an application in moist cases is $10.00. How to file a motion is not difficult. A positive result discharges the debt. A negative result leaves the bankrupt in the same situation they were prior to the application. Nothing ventured ...nothing gained.
I submit it is not a taxing process. It can actually be done very quickly.
We seem to have different perspectives on the same problems.
Are you familiar with the Ontario Association of Credit Counselling Services, a non profit organization providing credit counselling services through member agencies. I ran one of their agencies for 20 years. I know about the alternatives to bankruptcy (voluntary arrangements, OPD, proposals, etc.) .
Have you ever had a client go through the 178 1.1 process or a negative result from an application? You seem so negative against a simple process that could give an honest but unfortunate debtor a fresh start free of oppressive debt, provide for their financial rehabilitation and reintegration into society. If you want people to consider all options, don't you have to consider them as well.
Here is the bottom line for me ... bankruptcy is not usually the first choice. A debtor usually determines that they cannot make contractual payments. They attempt to restructure the debt to meet their financial and ethical obligations but cannot. They have exhausted their personal resources and assistance from others. Many have researched options such as credit counselling and found no help there. What choices are left ... a consumer proposal and bankruptcy. Very few people I have had contact with view bankruptcy as option number one. Seeing no other option and wishing to take control of their lives from their high interest creditors many who have raised the interest rate on the debt during periods of financial distress, they file an assignment or make a proposal. Some of these debtors have to file or propose prior to the expiration of the 10 or 7 year period. Their student loans will be revived when the trustee is discharged. Always a pleasant prospect. But they also know that if their financial situations have no significantly improved, there is a process to have the loans included in their earlier bankruptcy.
Look at the present situation... a bankrupt with surplus will be in bankruptcy for 21 months. A debtor who cannot pay their loans has usually received some interest relief. The trustee usually has to wait a minimum of 6 months to get their discharge. Combining all of these time periods, by the time the trustee is discharged, the average bankrupt or consumer debtor has been our of school for five years and eligible for hardship relief.
You make is it sound like the federal and provincial governments routinely oppose relief when in effect the opposite is true. As for bank risk loans, I have never had a bank oppose relief especially the CIBC. Registrars are independent of the government and often rule in favour of the debtor when applications are opposed.
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 02/December/2009 at 9:47am |
It really is not as easy as that. You have to remember you are dealing with the government. They have the power to make rules up as they go. Canada Revenue Agency via Justice CLAS can easily oppose. Same goes for the provinces. The intent of section 178 is quite simple. It prescribes the time frame when a student loan borrower can apply to have the loan(s) discharged. It does not mean that the bankrupt will be discharged. There are other variables here that you are not outlining in your pitch here.
Secondly, for most people, going through the motions of this process is taxing. If you look back, the majority of people who engaged in insolvency proceedings because of student loan debt did so out of trememdous fear. The cause of this fear was and still is the third-party collection agencies and their campaigns of threatening overtones and abusive treatment towards the indebted.
For those who have absolutely no ability to contribute financially, and are experiencing hardship with extenuating circumstances, then instead of going to the bench with a greater uncertainty - demonstrate the case of hardhsip with extenuating circumstances and have the loan forgiven. That is one of the programs we run.
The solution for any student loan borrower in trouble is to make the best decision that will get you where you need to be without any further hardship. Of course, the borrower has to make it.
Johnny
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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Iknowalotofstuff
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Posted: 28/November/2009 at 4:41pm |
If you went bankrupt and have been discharged ..and If your student loans were incurred before you went bankrupt ... and You have been out of school for five (5) years ... and You are a single mother with limited income ....
You can apply to the bankruptcy court in your province to have the student loans included in that earlier bankruptcy under s. 178 1.1 of the BIA.
Your situation seems to be ideal for this type of relief.
If you have not resolved your problem ... you do not have to go bankrupt again.
Believe me ... there is a solution here for you.
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amandars2622
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Posted: 17/November/2009 at 3:37pm |
I feel for you, as right now i'm enduring the horrible task of dealing with my student loans in court.
You should speak with a bankruptcy trustee. There is a new 7 year rule, that 7 years after you have finished school, you CAN declare bankruptcy on your student loans.
Also - speak with whom your loans are with - if its a collection agency they will usually negotiate and settle for 60% of the total loan amount. Or arrange a payment plan for $25.00 a month for the next 20 years - whatever you have to do. Believe me, you don't want to end up like me in court with them over this stressful stuff.
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liliana
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Posted: 29/October/2009 at 10:01am |
Hi JCVD,
I know exactly how you feel, the first time I posted was in 2005 and I am still dealing with them, I however did contact Johnny from the CFW Group and he has been helping me. I am not sure when this nightmare is going to end, but I know Johnny will put an end to it.
Don't give up!!! No student loan is worth that extreme, trust me I came very close, but thanks to God and my kids I'm still here. I have educated my kids with the consequences of getting a student loan and actually have not let them get one, instead they are paying one or two courses on their own.
Hang on, you are not alone.  |
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 29/October/2009 at 8:59am |
Hey JC
I know it is difficult. There are millions of Canadians affected by this nightmarish financial system. There are ways to overcome the "lows" that manifest when people feel disenfranchised and battered by the system. The banks, governments, collection agencies, and debt collection poolers, they are all one in the same. They really all. same culture, cut from the same cloth.
Try not to worry yourself and allow this issue to affect you. If you focus and think positive, positive things will start happening. You are not alone, my friend. Believe me.
Would you like some help perhaps? We can work this all out and get you back in the race. What do you say?
Johnny
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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envirogirl
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Posted: 29/October/2009 at 6:35am |
Hello JCVD:
You are definitely not alone in your frustration. However, I am worried when you say that you have considered suicide. Student loans are not worth that high a price. I have not paid a dime on my loans for about 5 years for a variety of reasons. However, I have been able to move from unemployment and underemployment to a decent job. You will too. Then, you will be able to rebuild your credit through things such as keeping on top of your regular bills and by getting a secured credit card (ie. Capitalone has a credit card where you put down $75, and you get a credit limit of $500. As long as you use it and pay it back, you re-establish your credit).
In the meantime, the forums are a good source of information and support. As well, do not take any calls from collectors--they just bring you down. Focus on reminding yourself of the things that you know--you are an educated, worthwhile person. If you are feeling depressed, considered talking to someone about it. The last thing your friends and family want is for you to harm yourself.
Envirogirl
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jcvd
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Posted: 29/October/2009 at 4:21am |
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I was a bright happy young man before OSAP. After tying to pay it off for years and still have it on my back totally ripped me to pieces. Ever since I lost my job >1 yr ago and still cannot find one, I have been contemplating the thoughts of suicide is the only way out of this nightmare. I have a feeling if I cannot find a job in a few months, I would not be able to take the pressure anymore and take my own life.
Trusting the government in blind faith & taking OSAP was the biggest mistake I've ever made.
I believe I'm not the only one facing this kind of problems, OSAP has created more problems in this generation than drug, alcohol did. It has become a phenomenal abuse itself to young, native and uninformed Canadians (esp the under privileged), while the banks and collection agents make record profits from the interests they charged.
They should hault OSAP until they have developed a repayment systems that makes sense to users - there should increase the post high school admission standards; put a cap on how much you can borrow and how much you should pay back in interests/principal monthly. They should not clean your bank account out even when you lost your job. They should help you get a job to pay them back.
Anyone share my POVs? Educated people are no bums, we do want to pay our way back in a way that's possible. Jobless people don't have $ to pay for anything, including student loans.
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Madmorrigan
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Posted: 29/September/2009 at 1:25pm |
joanne1970 wrote:
I managed to get myself out of my OSAP nightmare. Your MPP can help guide you in the right direction. Although I am still paying it back, I am paying back about 1/4 of it with very low interest. |
I wouldn't put too much hope in your MPP....mine barely gave me the time of day.
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joanne1970
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Posted: 28/September/2009 at 1:50pm |
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I managed to get myself out of my OSAP nightmare. Your MPP can help guide you in the right direction. Although I am still paying it back, I am paying back about 1/4 of it with very low interest.
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JO-jo
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citygirl@heart
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Posted: 27/September/2009 at 5:58am |
Liliana,
My heart goes out to you. Reading your story was almost like reading my own story. I am also a single mother, but with only one child. I also just filed for bankruptcy and have nothing, no car, no house, nothing to show for. I have work, good work, but they want me to start paying back my loan and I can't afford the monthly payments that they have stipulated. What are they going to do? Guarnishee my wages and in turn leave my child and I homeless? Homeless, in a town thousands of miles away from our family and friends.... I am going to talk to my MP, talk to the papers, talk to anyone who may listen. There is help out there somewhere I hope. I know it's been a while since you first posted your story and I really do hope that things have turned better for you.
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amanda
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Posted: 14/February/2008 at 2:15pm |
i dont know which school your son plans to go to but there are grants that the school can provide, they have so many donors..i myself go to U of T and i just received a grant of 3K to cover my rent for me and my baby daughter since OSAP froze my tuition half way through the year....that is a whole other story....also i would advise him once he has registered for school to go and see his registrar and let them know he needs funding and they should advise him and he should keep in contact with him...so they actually know who he is and he's not just a NUMBER!! all schools have emergency funding for a student if something pops up during the school year..........i hope this helps, in regards to your situation , my mom had the three of us alone and had to fight OSAP for almost TEN years, she had paid and they said she hadnt, she ended up all the way in Ottawa to get her name cleared...PLEASE do not let the collectors get to you, i can imagine your phone is ringing off the hook, but u know what, just hang up, u dont deserve the abuse...i think it is wonderful that u got up and went back to school although it doesnt feel that way..good luck
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chrispied
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Posted: 11/January/2007 at 6:41am |
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Don't give up. Contact johnny he is a lifesaver. I went years owing on my student loan, going into collections, went so far as to a judgement, i was hiding from collectors...affected my family, affected me, screwed my credit. Now i am almost all paid off by april it will be gone. Face it and deal with it, don't hide from it and give up, it just makes it worse. Johnny was a saviour for me and i now can see the light at the end of the tunnel. There is always a way out, you just need some help finding it. (((hugs))).
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joanne1970
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Posted: 22/August/2006 at 9:49am |
This was like reading my own personal horror story. So far I have emailed the president of the bank that held my loan and she declined any help.
I have recently asked my MP to step in. I myself after leaving an abusive husband found I had two options, educate myself and then provide for my family, or stay on the system and cost everyone money.
Boy am I sorry I didnt' just stay on the system, where I am untouchable.
I also have three children and finally have secured a decent job, almost 10 years later. All I can say is we are here with you hang tight and there is a light. I hope this Johny guy has helped you out, one day I may need to call him too.
Sending Hugs from the other single mom's out here in the same boat.
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JO-jo
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Just want to give up