This website is a testimony to the problems Canadian Student Loan borrowers experienced from approximately 1996 to 2008 and until their loans were paid off.

The privatization of the Student Loans system by the Chretien and Martin Liberal governments broke the system and defaulted thousands of borrowers who were trying to pay their loans. There were even stories of suicide due to the harassment of borrowers.

Read the report that I prepared back in 2007 here. Canada Student Loans-The Need for Change Fortunately the new Conservative government at the time revamped the program and fixed the system for new borrowers, but borrowers under the previous program were left with ruined credit and continued harassment from debt collectors.

I call on the Canadian Government to apologize to the borrowers affected by this fiasco and make amends.

Unfortunately the Liberal government is again clobbering the Education system with their upcoming changes to International Student Visas. Yes, there's a problem, but instead of a well thought out plan, they have pulled the emergency brake on the train causing a derailment. This has introduced unprecedented instability for both private and public education institutions who serve both international and local students.

Universities can't plan. I've heard of courses being cut because the government has no process in place for universities to send the newly required acceptance letters to the government.

This means that students who have been accepted can not attend courses that start in the summer 2024 semester. With cut sections, current Canadian students will have trouble getting courses, and may have to switch to part-time which changes their enrollment status and might trigger repayment of their loans or ineligibility for funding. I've seen this before. It wreaks havoc on the student loan borrowers.

Again, the Liberal government has messed up the education environment. Will the new system needed in a rush for the acceptance letters be the new Arrivecan scandal?

I call on the government to implement a slower phased in approach and delay the requirement of the acceptance letters until a process is in place to submit these letters.


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    Posted: 09/September/2014 at 11:00am
Hi,

I won my case!!  Thank you all for your help. I actually did the work myself and represented myself. No one else showed up for the other sides. 

I was lucky and got some free help. But I will recommend Matthew R. Harris 

http://www.matthewrharrislawyer.com/



I can also recommended legal aid at 393 University Ave  Main Floor.

They will not give you any legal advise, but they will let you use the computers and bring up the proper forms to fill out . You can speak with a lawyer and if your lucky, they are familiar with the situation and can give some advsie. 






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davids Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/June/2014 at 11:40am

I am in Ontario?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/June/2014 at 5:41am
Yes, that is the address for non-tax collections. THere is a Gatineau and Matane, Quebec office.
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote persius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/June/2014 at 3:16pm
I'm not here for a spitting contest. I presented facts based on hard experience. People can believe it or reject it and that's all there is to it. Debating changes nothing.
The only comment I'm going to share is based on what you wrote that what the government did to me is illegal.  You are absolutely right.  Pick up any daily newspaper or watch the news and you will discover numerous stories surrounding provincial or federal politicians which are extremely illegal.  Why do they do it and why do they get away with it?  Because they can!
 
In Ontario the current Liberal government has been caught up in scandal after scandal and no politician has ever been held accountable for anything they did and they never will be because they hide behind a shield of immunity. Charges of corruption cannot be laid against politicians because these same politicians created these laws to protect themselves. If anybody needs to be charged with criminal activity that's the Ontario Liberal Party yet, there is only silence surrounding them.  Even the police commented that charges are applicable to many things the government here has done.  So what, nobody has been charged and nobody will be.
 
I am aware of three people in Ontario who were notified by the revenue dept. claiming that they owe back taxes but facts were never presented.  One individual in particular was told that he owes an additional $5000.00 which he proved to them that he owes nothing. He used his accountant and tax receipts issued by the same government showing he is clean and clear.  Without his knowledge the revenue dept. accessed his bank account and removed just over $15,000.00 citing "we took this money just in case you will end up owing us something in the future".  When he threatened to take them to court they replied openly in a letter "sue us if you want".    This action was highly illegal but that didn't stop them.  When you work for an organization that creates the laws then you automatically insert the loop holes and you exploit them just as the government has been doing for decades.  Go on google and search for other examples such as this one.  Telling a government official that what they are doing or involved in is illegal will only make them laugh at you.  Give it a try and see for yourself.  I did.
 
Do you know why the government doesn't care if you threaten them with legal action?  They have your tax dollars to defend themselves with and an army of attorneys waiting to be deployed who will spin the story and bury you in legal dung.  They know that your money will disappear long before you make any progress with your defense.  They can fight you indefinitely and the ironic thing is that you are paying them to do it through your taxes.  Look at the CBC.  Proven by the press to be involved in illegal behavior and they still manage to take your tax dollars and counter sue the government with it.  Don't preach to me about illegal action. This is standard operating procedure by the government.
 
All of your suggestions and ideas may work in theory but in the real world they do nothing. When the government lines you up in their sites you can fight if you want but it's a losing battle.  Too many people have been cheated out of their money and homes who were innocent of the claims the government filed against them.  There is no way that the government will ever admit to any wrong doing because if they admit to one case then they will have to admit to all of them and that will cost them BILLIONS of dollars in reparations and money is one thing that the government is not willing to part with under any circumstances.  Illegal action is a daily activity with the government and they are not afraid of you by brining it to anybody's attention.
 
As far as I'm concerned, if politicians were held to the same level of accountability as you and I are, most would be in prison right now.
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Hi,

I thank all of your for the valuable feed back. 

One question, on the form for responding party. One one my student loans is with Revenue Canada and the other ( Provincial ) with a Collection agency. I do not have a contact name. If I call just who ever answers helps me. Do I need a contact name or just an address? 

Would anyone know the address for Revenue Canada. The slips they mail me has Employment and skills development. Would I use that address? 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/June/2014 at 4:09am
Persuis, you wrote:

"All a bankrupt has to do is clearly demonstrate their case.  If it is a weak case then seek an alternate solution. If the case meets the requirements then follow the guideline, which can be obtained by any bankruptcy court.
My case met all of the requirements and beyond and still I was found guilty. As you read this posting I'm making payments on a monthly basis for something that I do not legally owe!  I have LEGAL documents proving I don't owe a penny to anybody but here I am paying it back from money I still don't have."

Who determined your case met all the requirements prior to the filing of your motion? If you have physical proof that you don't even owe the student loan but are being forced to pay money that is extortion and criminal. Seriously.

You wrote:

"Hardship with a set of extenuating circumstances that can be clearly demonstrated will usually suffice.
As I stood before that judge I was on social assistance and remained so for another year. I was a legal example of a financial hardship case and still the found me guilty.  The court sent me a letter announcing I'm guilty and must pay.  I even had the legal firm that opposed me send me letters demanding payments to begin.  I'm sorry to say but extenuating circumstances are just a term tossed around by lawyers to mislead people.  In fact, I called the claims office and stressed to them that I'm living under financial hardship. The person I spoke with told me that I do not meet the requirement of a financial hardship case because I'm still able to purchase food on my own so therefore I'm exempt from financial hardship entitlements. Wow, I had no idea such a clause existed. Did you?"

Social assistance is certainly hardship but it is not considered an extenuating circumstance. Unless it is a long-term thing historically.  The gradation process is warped and I definitely agree.  However, you are presenting your case and selling reason why you and  the loan should be discharged.  Social assistance and economic crisis surrounding that is not enough. You have to make these motions very colorful and from the bottom up. 

Another thing you need to steady and control is your emotional output during the hearing. Your attitude and persona can influence things regardless of how "unbiased" they proclaim to be.

To me it sounds like you were not prepared as much as you should have been. This I don't think is your fault. It is the lack of information and understanding of your unique set or sets of circumstances that undermined it. 

What most people don't recognize is that there is a "front and back door" in the post-bankruptcy house.  If a section 178 seems more iffy than not then perhaps it's time to approach the minister of HRSDC and seek out viable solutions.

I have been doing this for near 20 years and I know what works and what doesn't. Lawyers are good at what they do but the risk of cost is the amount of time they take to do this sort of stuff.  If you can have an approach, content, and presentation strategy with tools and materials professionally done for less than the actual cost of your bankruptcy assignment you are doing good.   

You wrote:

"There are other professionals than lawyers, and certainly more cost benefit/effective solutions.
Please feel free to share a few examples. When I needed this information nobody provided any to me even though I spent two years searching for it. In my city there was only one lawyer listed who deals with bankruptcy cases. When I went to meet him for my FREE consultation, he told me "I'm not really sure how that works so if you need me to provide answers you'll have to hire me".  My 30 minute free consultation lasted 7 minutes."

First of all, most lawyers are motivated by money. This is why middle class and just above poverty groups in Canada can not retain legal counsel and get legal help when it is needed. Very few lawyers work on contingency here.  In the US ANYONE can access to legal assistance if there is a case to support it.  Canada Law and justice is expensive and only caters to the wealthy.  If you don't enough money then no one wants to help you.  I don't work that way and the pro bono cases I have taken over the past 12 years show for it. The ones who tried to abuse and exploit it certainly show but that group is very small.

Lastly, I want to revisit the beginning of your post here and say that IF you do NOT owe this money and you have evidence and material supporting this then there is nothing to discharge - nothing to pay.  Having proof of such a thing is a slam-dunk case! The question I have is what proof is it that you have, and if you presented proof you do not even "legally" owe this money then what is being done to you is an injustice and criminal.  Something doesn't add up here.





Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
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Persius,
It sounds like you went through a really rough time with the courts and the system.  I really wish things had turned out better for you.  There have been some reports on the site here of people being successful in their efforts.  It sounds like you really did a lot of work to try to get this sorted out. If I were in your shoes I'd be pretty p*ssed at the system for its unfairness.  I do appreciate your advice and your posting your experience here as a warning that the legal system can be difficult to navigate. 

A friend recently went to small claims court. The normal judge was off sick and he got some yahoo who didn't follow the regulations and didn't allow his witnesses etc and he lost his case.  The replacement judge apparently was apparently unhappy to be working that day and this was the last case of the day and he wanted to get it over with.  My point being is that the system is filled with humans, some are really nasty and some are quite competent.  

Things obviously went wrong for you.... I hope that somehow you find a solution, and more importantly, your experience is valued here and serves as a warning that it sometimes isn't as easy as people think to declare bankruptcy or get a court order.  

That being said, with experience behind you, would consider a second attempt? Maybe with your experience now you could try a second application?   I know, a bit scary to go through.... but maybe with a different judge and more experience you might have a better experience? 

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Johnny, you are correct with what you say but have you been through this exact issue yourself?  Are you speaking from personal experience?

You stated the following:
 
All a bankrupt has to do is clearly demonstrate their case.  If it is a weak case then seek an alternate solution. If the case meets the requirements then follow the guideline, which can be obtained by any bankruptcy court.
My case met all of the requirements and beyond and still I was found guilty. As you read this posting I'm making payments on a monthly basis for something that I do not legally owe!  I have LEGAL documents proving I don't owe a penny to anybody but here I am paying it back from money I still don't have.
 
Hardship with a set of extenuating circumstances that can be clearly demonstrated will usually suffice.
As I stood before that judge I was on social assistance and remained so for another year. I was a legal example of a financial hardship case and still the found me guilty.  The court sent me a letter announcing I'm guilty and must pay.  I even had the legal firm that opposed me send me letters demanding payments to begin.  I'm sorry to say but extenuating circumstances are just a term tossed around by lawyers to mislead people.  In fact, I called the claims office and stressed to them that I'm living under financial hardship. The person I spoke with told me that I do not meet the requirement of a financial hardship case because I'm still able to purchase food on my own so therefore I'm exempt from financial hardship entitlements. Wow, I had no idea such a clause existed. Did you?
 
There are other professionals than lawyers, and certainly more cost benefit/effective solutions.
Please feel free to share a few examples. When I needed this information nobody provided any to me even though I spent two years searching for it. In my city there was only one lawyer listed who deals with bankruptcy cases. When I went to meet him for my FREE consultation, he told me "I'm not really sure how that works so if you need me to provide answers you'll have to hire me".  My 30 minute free consultation lasted 7 minutes.
 
I shared my experience based on fact. There was no assumption or guessing involved.  I did everything that you pointed out in your letter and I lost. I'm still paying for it today and will be paying for years to come and to ad insult to injury they are still adding the interest to the outstanding balance.  From my experience, your suggestion does not work.  It  may sound good on paper and it may be based on what the law says but in reality it's just an illusion designed to mislead people. Every year I file my taxes every dollar that should be returned to me is immediately diverted directly to the revenue dept. I haven't seen a tax return in almost 10 years but I do have to pay for each one just to watch my money vanish instantly.
 
This is not a risk worth taking.  That has been my point from the beginning.  It's very easy to dispense advise to people who need it the most but those very people are the ones taking 100% of the risk. When things go wrong, you won't be affected by any of it but they will be.
 

 
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Hi Johnny and Thank You. 

If I had 3000$ or more for a lawyer, I would just use to pay down my debt. But I do not. 

If I was certain to win with a lawyer, I would see if I could borrow, but if I lose, I will be in a worse situation. 

I also agree, if I walk in there with a lawyer and then say I can not pay my SL would not look good. 

I did get legal help, I get free legal advise at work. I also have some friends and my doctor read it over and write letters.  If it is prepared properly, I see no issues. I would rather act now and take my chances. I can not afford a lawyer, so I am not shooting myself in the foot. It is the only option I have. 

But if you know of a sample forms (forms alreay filled out) it would be a great help. Thank you.











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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/May/2014 at 5:44pm
You can do this without a lawyer. Lawyers are not the end all be all Persius. Even lawyers screw these things up.  All a bankrupt has to do is clearly demonstrate their case.  If it is a weak case then seek an alternate solution. If the case meets the requirements then follow the guideline, which can be obtained by any bankruptcy court.

Hardship with a set of extenuating circumstances that can be clearly demonstrated will usually suffice. Grading case strength is what counts.  So, hardship with extenuating circumstances falls into different categories. One thing is for certain though - you know whether or not you can contribute towards the student loan. If you can, and you have benefited from the education professionally and economically, then you would not be considered, if found to be financially fit to do so.

There are other professionals than lawyers, and certainly more cost benefit/effective solutions. However, if you have money to burn get a lawyer. People who can afford lawyers are looked upon as having an ability to pay because of the higher costs of these retainers.

You can appoint anyone you so choose. If it isn't a lawyer then you can approach the court to ask permission for you and whomever you want there helping you.


Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

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As mentioned previously, you are shooting yourself in the head if you do this on your own.  Please go back to my original letter and read it once again.  Everything you need is there. 
I cannot stress strongly enough that you do not fill anything out yourself.  These are legal documents and if anything is missing or out of place you alone will be blamed and held accountable.  Unless you have a lawyer who will fill these documents out on your behalf you're just begging for trouble.  You are not applying for a movie pass here. You are taking legal matters into your own hands and that simply means that the judge will find you guilty within 10 minutes of your name being called and you are not entitled to an appeal. This is a one time opportunity for you so stop playing games.
 
In one of your previous letters you wrote: 
" I am getting help, especially when going into court. But to save money I am doing some things myself ".
You may think that you're saving money but again, this is a legal matter and unless your attorney fills these forms out for you then you have lost your case before it even begins. I can't phrase it any more clearly.  
You asked in your last posting for examples on how to fill these forms out.  I will not provide you or anybody else with suggestions or examples.  The responsibility is 100% yours. 
 
You now have all the information you require and from this point on you alone are accountable for all consequences that will arise if you put pen to paper without a lawyer by your side.
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I have the forms,  I just wanted a example of how they are filled out. The courts will not provide an example or answer any questions

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Here is the contact information you need to obtain the forms.
 
Ministry of Attorney General
Court Services Division
London, Ontario
 
Go on Google and perform a search and then call them. 
Tell them you need the proper forms for motion to discharge student loan for original bankruptcy.
 
Good luck.
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Hi,

Do you know where I can find an example of forms that have been completed? So I can use a guide when completing?

I am getting help, especially when going into court. But to save money I am doing some things myself.

Thank You,
David 



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Hi David
 
My advice to you is to not do this alone.  The documentation you received and filled out will not go in your favor if you don't have an attorney representing you. You're simply wasting your time. The moment you set foot in the courtroom you're an open target for the lawyers and judge. If you don't understand the law then you will simply be destroyed where you stand.  I did everything that you did and I got shot in the back by the system.  I understand how important your situation is and I empathize with you 100% but please do not do any of this alone.  Any chance you have of having your loan dismissed will vanish the day you go to court alone. The system is against you unless an attorney takes up your case. 
 
Keep your documents and hand all of them over to a qualified lawyer who specializes in student loans. Do not under any circumstances speak to anybody who contacts you regarding this case unless it's your own attorney because you will most likely get a call from the law office of the attorney who will be challenging you and it's their objective to cut you down before you set foot in the courtroom.  They will most likely try to intimidate you in some way.  They want the money and will do whatever it takes to force it from you!  Keep silent for your own sake. I cannot stress this point enough.  If they try to force any kind of answer from you tell them "I have nothing to say until my legal council advises me".  Keep repeating this to them over and over if you have to. SAY NOTHING!!!  Don't give them the time of day, don't tell them how you're getting to court, don't tell them anything about who your lawyer is or anything else.  If anything, take notes of the questions or statements they are making to you but give them NOTHING. You are dealing with an unethical system that shows no mercy to those who need it most.  This is why I'm stressing this to you so strongly.
 
 
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If you are low income, perhaps check with your local legal aid clinic. Some universities who have a faculty of law might have a legal aid clinic.
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Hi,

Thank you for responding. I read your letter and found it very helpful. Thank You for posting. I am planning to contact a lawyer to check things over and review some things but to save money I want to do as much as possible myself. I also have other health issues and ADHD that might be relevant. I know it is a bit of a long shot, but I want to try.  

I contacted the court and it is now all done by email. I emailed them and was given a date but other than that they were not helpful with forms or anything. I did some research and believe this is what I should do ... but I need some direction. If you are not sure of certain things, that is ok, but any advise will be grateful.

Step 1. I am to fill out Form 37A ( motion ). 

For (General heading)
- what do I put here? is there a format I should follow?

When it says, " The (identify moving party) will ... " would that just be my name or some other format?

For the " PROPOSED METHOD OF HEARING" 
- there are a few options, would it be orally or written ? 

THE GROUNDS FOR THE MOTION ARE (specify the grounds to be argued, including a reference to any statutory provision or rule to be relied on).
- I written about 3 pages on why it should be discharge. I could cut it down but should I put it here.

THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE  
- would that just be pay stubs showing my income, health expenses etc, bank records? 
- I can also get a letter from my doctor outlining certain things? Would this be ok.

Under the section ... To (Name and address of responding party’s lawyer or responding party)
- I have two student loans, Federal and Provincial, would I need to put both addresses on the same form? Should I contact them to get the correct address.

Step 2. 

Notify both parties that I am doing this.
- Do I just send a copy of this same motion in register mail? or a separate form?
- where do I sign and where I get a witness to sign, it is not listed on that form?
- do I also send them copies of my DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE like expenses etc

Step 3. 
Complete Affidavit  of service
- do I fill out two forms for each loan? or just one form

Step. 4. 
File my papers with the court and pay the fee


Thank You,
David 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote persius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/May/2014 at 4:49pm
Hi Davids

The information you require can be found in my letter above in bolded text.  Once you contact that office they will mail you the documents you require.  Having said that, if you haven't read my letter then I strongly suggest you do so before making any requests to the government. The information provided tells you exactly what you're about to walk into.  Without a lawyer, you're stepping into a mind field and you won't walk out in one piece.

 
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Hi,

I as well declared bankruptcy and my student load was not old enough to be included. I am now planning to file to have it included. I was told I need to file a motion. I already have a count date 2 months from now. 

Do anyone have an example and a template of a motion? 
Do anyone have an example of an Affidavits of service.

Do I need any other forms?

Any advise will be great. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote persius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/February/2012 at 5:32am
One detail I forgot to include so I'm adding it here.
 
As soon as I stepped out of the court room with the lawyer, I was asked why I'm here today? Sounds like a stupid question but there was more to it than I imagined.  As stated, I was told that every document I mailed was invalid and unacceptable.  I stated to the lawyer that I followed every instruction given to me so I can't understand why I wasn't informed about today's surprises i.e. opposing lawyer, requiring a defense council etc.  The lawyers reply was:
 
"they ([Name removed by administrator]'s office) are not required to tell you these things".  
 
Can you believe this?  You are requesting legal information/directions from a law office and they are not obligated or required to inform you of all your rights to a fair hearing.  In simple terms, they are allowed to withhold vital information from you which would help you in resolving your case.  This is ethical?  This is justice?
 
I can't speak for anybody else but as far as I'm concerned justice is not available to all. Justice only exists to those who can afford to pay for it.
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