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SingleMomOfTwo
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Joined: 02/April/2012
Location: Ottawa
Points: 17
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Posted: 16/April/2012 at 7:42am |
Thanks Mark! I will get in contact with Footloose asap and yes, I will definitely scan and email the doc, so others can benefit from it as well!
Thanks Johnny...off to check out the links you provided.
Cheers!
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SolveStudentDebt
Moderator Group
Joined: 05/November/2003
Location: Canada
Points: 5996
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Posted: 16/April/2012 at 10:34am |
All you have to do is review the arguments made in one or any number of cases and you can use that as a guide. Rerading through is good because it will land you some good intelligence concerning these particular applications.
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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SingleMomOfTwo
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Joined: 02/April/2012
Location: Ottawa
Points: 17
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Posted: 18/April/2012 at 3:27am |
Thanks Johnny, I've been doing just that....reading through many of the decisions and making notes on my particular situation as it relates to the factors the judges considered. I'm still kinda stuck in getting it going though, as I'm still not sure how to formulate the required documents, until I get the copy of the motion etc....all of these links are to decisions...the notices and motions and affidavits that I need to submit aren't shown here.... However, I've been in contact with Footloose and he will be kind enough to send it along as soon as he receives it. Then I can really get the ball rolling...
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SolveStudentDebt
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Joined: 05/November/2003
Location: Canada
Points: 5996
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Posted: 18/April/2012 at 5:27am |
Good stuff! I hope this works out for you. Truly. You both have my support any time you need it!
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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SingleMomOfTwo
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Joined: 02/April/2012
Location: Ottawa
Points: 17
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Posted: 23/April/2012 at 4:02am |
HUGE thanks to you for that!
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aaska01
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Joined: 31/March/2010
Points: 15
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Posted: 20/June/2012 at 4:26am |
Just wondering how things went for you?
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2befree
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Joined: 08/July/2012
Points: 2
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Posted: 08/July/2012 at 7:40am |
Can you tell me how it all worked out in the end for you? I have been deliberating this processs. I owe about 100,000, I think more to the two collection agencies that have recovered the student loan debt. I would be really interested in seeing the sample of the application they sent you. When I spoke to the office, they never even offered to help me write the hardship application or give me any clues how to do it....just told me I would be better off getting a lawyer. If I could afford a lawyer, I wouldn't be filing for hardship. It seems a little hypocritical that they would tell you to retain a lawyer because you couldn't afford to pay a lawyer. You would think they would rather have that money applied to the debt. Confused and frustrated!!
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SingleMomOfTwo
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Joined: 02/April/2012
Location: Ottawa
Points: 17
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Posted: 10/July/2012 at 2:13am |
Hi All!
Sorry for not getting back to your messages right away, I feel badly about that, but I was hoping to have a more substantive update. I still don't. I did endless research, benefitted from the converstaions here, from Footloose obtaining a "sample package" that showed me the administrative requirements of filing, I prepared all my paperwork and set up a court date.
But... now I'll backtrack a little. My job is very much hanging in the balance right now and this all came about the exact same time that I was preparing my package for submission and considering my bankruptcy was filed in a different city than where I reside now, I had to file this in the same city....which is 5 hours away, hearings are mid-week and as a reminder I'm a single parent of 2 young children. So, I was able to ask someone to represent me, to basically just show up and stand there with all my docs, and their fee was going to be very very minimal. There's no way that I could physically get there (5 hours each way), deal with my children/school etc etc and I cannot take any time at work right now because I'm literally fighting for my life to keep my job and the stress has taken an absolutely brutal toll on my health. I digress... So I was thrilled that this individual would represent me....However, that was June 19th and I have not heard from the representative despite my trying to contact her about 10 times. I'm exacerbated, frustrated, upset....I could go on. I have noooo idea how it went, or even IF it went However, the fact that my representative will not return my calls or emails, doesn't sit well with me and I'm at a loss. I have tried to email the court house to ask them what the status is and no response either. So here I am, once again left in a vacuum of uncertainty. Ok, enough of the poor me, but really....this is super crummy and pretty ridiculous!?
I thank you all for thinking of me and for checking in. For those that have posted and are interested in how my situtation is resolved, I will be sure to pay it forward and share my experience, once I can figure out what is going on.
Cheers,
SingleMomOfTwo
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RainbowM
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Joined: 03/October/2012
Points: 1
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Posted: 03/October/2012 at 12:09pm |
I am disappointed in my trustee. He said that after my discharge that an application can be made for the hardshipclaim. As I approach the discharge date, he refers me to a lawyer! She will charge me about $2 K to do this. It is still worth it, but I think I can handle a court application as I have done many for family court appearances (Ah ha! being a single mom has paid off) but it is difficult to find the applications and instructions on how to do this. My bankrupcy is filed in Victoria BC. Is there anyway I can make an application myself? If I am unsuccessful, can a lawyer make an application again? I live 5 hours away from that court house, but I think I can make it work to represent myself if I can save myself a couple grand!
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footloose
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Joined: 21/February/2012
Location: Blyth ON
Points: 81
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Posted: 03/October/2012 at 6:59pm |
I can understand your disappointment in your Trustee and that is only because you don't understand the situation. Your Trustee is not a licenced lawyer, therefore, is not able to represent you in a Bankruptcy Court "Hardship" application pursuant to Subsection 178(1.1) of the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act ( BIA ). That is why he suggested or referred you to a Bankruptcy lawyer. Trustee's fees are regulated and must be approved by either a judge in a Bankruptcy Court or by the Office of the Superintendant of Bankruptcy. A Trustee can only receive fees when a Consumer Proposal is filed and approved or when an Assignment in Bankeuptcy is made and approved by the Office of the Superintendent of Bankruptcy. No Trustee is going to prepare a "Hardship" application pro bono. That is why you were referred to a Bankruptcy lawyer.
First of all, there are no forms or instructions in the preparation of a "Hardship" application. Yes, you can make the application yourself but, unless you are extremely creative and have an in-depth knowledge of what constitutes "Hardship" into the foreseeable future including your inability to maintain continous employment, your application will fail. If the application fails, you can make a second application but before doing so, you would be wise to study the court transcripts and determine why the Registrar ( Bankruptcy Court Judge ) refused to approve the application.
My suggestion to you is to attempt to locate a paralegal who is very familiar with the filing of a "Hardship" application. The paralegal can prepare all the neessary papers complete with backup documentation and file this application in the Bankruptcy Court. The paralegal CANNOT represent you in the Bankruptcy Court, however, you must appear in person so that the judge can cross-exam you on your application. That was the mistake that "SingleMomofTwo" made when she filed her application in the Bankruptcy Court in Toronto, Ontario. She could not attend at the application hearing because she lived in Nepean ( Ottawa ), Ontario ( 5 hours away ) and the judge cannot examine a representative of the applicant. Needless to say, the application failed.
In addition, the application must be filed in the same Bankruptcy Court in which your Discharge was granted. If you cannot locate a paralegal to prepare the application, you should seriously consider engaging the services of a Bankruptcy lawyer who is infinitely familiar with "Hardship" applications. While the fees may seem expensive, consider it an investment in extinguishing your student loan debts.
REMEMBER
He who represents himself has a fool for a client.
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Educating one Consumer at a time
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SolveStudentDebt
Moderator Group
Joined: 05/November/2003
Location: Canada
Points: 5996
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Posted: 04/October/2012 at 2:59am |
"He who represents himself has a fool for a client." That is a good one. It is expensive to hire an attorney. as Footlose said, unless you have the knowledge about how to do it, it is not very easy. Creativity is important in the sense of "making it stick". Who do you actually owe? What was your study end date?
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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administrator
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Joined: 25/January/2003
Points: 1798
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Posted: 04/October/2012 at 8:06am |
You might also consider contacting Pivot Legal Society, or the UBC Law Clinic for help in BC.
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Administrator Mark OMeara Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024
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SingleMomOfTwo
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Joined: 02/April/2012
Location: Ottawa
Points: 17
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Posted: 07/October/2013 at 10:48am |
Hi Everyone!
I have an update that you all might be interested in.
So, I just today received a letter in the mail from the Superior Court of Justice, granting me a full
discharge!! I drove 5 hours (each way) to Toronto in a snow storm in
March and self represented my case. It was nerve wracking, in a room
full of lawyers, and the Judge was tough and put me on the spot, but 6.5
months later, I received some of the best news ever - this debt will
not cost me one more sleepless night!!!! In her decision, the Judge
stated that she was satisfied that I had acted in good faith as to my
student loans and that my current circumstances are such that I am and
will continue to experience financial difficulty. Finally, the order is
that s. 178(1)(g) shall not operate as to my student loans!
I
spent a loooot of time on my
documents. I researched other cases and used some phrases from them
that would fit to my case, I provided an extensive budget in excel which
showed that I have very little, if any, surplus income to support
either a proposal or repayment of student loans, I showed proof that my
current position only requires a high school education, in my affidavit I proved that I had made small but relatively consistent payments to
my student loans over the years. I proved that I ran into very serious
financial hardship when my marriage dissolved and I accrued unavoidable
debt to care for myself and my two young children, but that I have
honoured these debts and I am repaying them.
I wanted to share
this with you, to give you all some hope and also in hopes that I could possibly benefit some of you. Bottom line - I
was 100% honest, I did a lot of homework and spent many many hours perfecting my documents, my situation was representative of
why these laws
were put into place, and I believe that I had some luck on my side!!! I
am so incredibly grateful!
Thank you so very much to Footloose for helping me get my hands on the sample documents, so I could figure
out the process as they were very helpful and I am very grateful! Thank you also to the admins on here for running the site and for offering your sage words of advice.
All the Best to you all!
SingleMomofTwo
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SolveStudentDebt
Moderator Group
Joined: 05/November/2003
Location: Canada
Points: 5996
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Posted: 08/October/2013 at 8:09am |
When you are in hardship and dealing with student loan that survived a previous bankruptcy, this is ther approach. All you need to do is put the time in and acquaint yourself with the right materials. :) Good work! Good argument and demonstration examples for anyone who wants to make their own section 178 application are: 1) Extreme financial hardship and restraints 2) No economic benefit from the education - in cases of withdrawal. 3) documented evidence of past and-or current actions of good faith with no impact on debt load
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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Penneme
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Joined: 03/December/2013
Location: Ontario
Points: 1
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Posted: 03/December/2013 at 2:42am |
My spouse is in court this morning in regards to a 15 year old student loan. We have just recently found out we can apply to have this included in a bankruptcy of 2005. How do we go about this? I can not find anything on line as in forms to start this process
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treevee
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Joined: 01/February/2013
Points: 14
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Posted: 03/April/2014 at 9:54am |
I am in a similar situation and believe that I can apply to have my student loans included in my previous bankruptcy (discharged October 2009) this October as it will have been 5 years. I read through the threads on here and completed the eligibility criteria that is posted on another thread that is outlined here: http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/bsf-osb.nsf/eng/br01055.html.
My major concern is that I ceased being a full-time student in February 2008 (I couldn't afford to continue my MA). However, I have returned to school here and there to take courses that I have paid for on my own. The last time I took a course was January - April 2011. I understand that I have to have ceased being a student for five years before I can include my student loans in my previous bannkruptcy but what about if I just took one class?
I would also love to connect with singlemomoftwo and footloose and maybe get a copy of these examples of documents that helped you with your case, singlemomoftwo.
Thank you so much!
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administrator
Admin Group
Joined: 25/January/2003
Points: 1798
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Posted: 03/April/2014 at 3:07pm |
There have been cases where the judge ruled that taking courses that you paid for yourself would not count. It would be calculated from the time you took courses that were funded by student loans....You need to find the cases and include them when you present to a judge. Here's a link to read up on: http://canadastudentdebt.ca/forum_posts.asp?TID=6563&title=case-re-bankruptcy-7-yrs-returning-to-school
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Administrator Mark OMeara Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024
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