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SingleMomOfTwo
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Topic: How to include a CSL in previous bankruptcy Posted: 02/April/2012 at 7:14am |
Help please!
First, I'm so grateful, after the ridiculous amount of hours I've spent researching on top of reaching out for help to the bank, HRSDC and even my MP, that I've found this forum. I finally feel somewhat hopeful that I can deal with this situation and stop losing sleep over it all - I really hope I can anyway.
So my situation is such that I graduated in 1998, filed for bankruptcy in 2002 and it was discharged in 2004. I was making regular payments on the student loans and was living debt free until my world turned upside down in 2005 and I had to urgently leave a marriage with two young children.
There is a lot of backstory on some really, really rough years, but the bottom line is such that I still owe approx $28K with respect to my CSL. My financial situation is that I make decent money, I suppose, but due to some really rough times, I have an $11K legal bill that I'm paying off, a line of credit from a family member that I'm paying off (this allowed me to keep a roof over my daughter’s heads for the 3 years it took to receive any child support from my ex - it was not for frills) I am paying for daycare, a car payment and the necessities of life for the 3 of us. From a financial standpoint, I'm in the hole every month.
I tried to contact the bank to resolve the outstanding CSL and they said that they'd recall the loan from the collection agency and that they would assess my file for repayment assistance, but only if I paid the collection agency $9K. Unfortunately, that is in no way possible.
I contacted my MP and after 4 months of working with them, they said that HRSDC would only consider writing off my debt if I was disabled. Thank goodness that is NOT the case. However, I never did receive that decision in writing from the MP or HRSDC, so I contacted them to obtain it and low and behold they never knew that I had been a previous bankrupt, nor did the bank, even though I had made this known on several occasions. So, the HRSDC agent told me, based on my details of when I finished school and when I filed for bankruptcy, that I could request an absolute order of discharge to have my student loan included in my previous bankruptcy.
Strange but true point...I have no liens against me...I qualified for a mortgage, my credit is clear and no-one has ever come looking for me for this money...but that scares me and I want to really take care of it because it honestly terrifies me that it will come back and bite me, so I've been trying for years to resolve this and be upfront an honest about my debt.
That's where I employ your knowledge and experience. I don't know what I need to do.
Can someone please tell me step by step what I need to do and share any lessons learned that could help me with this process. I need to protect my sanity and my children's livelihoods.
I thank you in advance for your time and for reading this novel, lol, and I promise to pay it forward and return the favour.
Thanks again!!!!
Yours truly!
SingleMomOfTwo.
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 02/April/2012 at 8:18am |
What it sounds like is that there may be a limitation issue there. If there is one there then filing a section 178 under the BIA for discharge would cause the debt to survive, especially if the application for discharge fails. This is the risk that any former bankrupt faces when arriving at these crossroads. If anyone tells you that you your best move would be applying to the court to have the debt discharged then it would be bad advice because of those risks. At least, if it is barred, then your safeguard is the statute that protects you so you can move forward without having to worry about it resurrecting from the dead and coming back to haunt you. Metaphorically creepy I know but student debt and its broken systems are that creepy
If you want us to help you then you can contact us privately. Otherwise, best of luck!
Johnny
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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SingleMomOfTwo
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Posted: 02/April/2012 at 8:25am |
Thanks so much for your response. Can you explain more what you mean about the debt being statute barred? I didn't think that there was a limitation period on student loans, but I've wondered WHY no-one is contacting me and why this loan is not appearing anywhere and that maybe it's not really ON the books anymore. Which, as you say while potentially good....is totally creeoy, lol! Can you please tell me more and if there's a way to find out that it's statue barred and if it is can it come back and bite me?
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SingleMomOfTwo
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Posted: 02/April/2012 at 12:02pm |
Do u mean to contact u privately for help in filing the application, or for help in general? Thanks again.
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 03/April/2012 at 3:29am |
There is a limitation issue pertainiong to student loans. The only student loans that are not bound by limitations are the Ontario guaranteed loans after a certain timeline (post 1998 I do believe) and loans owed to the Province of Nova Scotia.
The only way I can help you get remedy weith this is to get involved and help you. It is not something that can be concluded through an online forum. work has to be done, if you want to uncover and expose this benefit. If you want professional assistance with this then you would have to contact me so I can get to know your situation in greater detail.
There is no application of any sort to file in a limitation study. If you are looking for free help then there is only such much I can do on a pro bono basis.
All I am saying is that if you choose to acknowledge the debt by filing a section 178 then you run HUGE risks if it fails. Limitations won't matter in this event because you will have acknowledged the debt in accordance with Section 19.1 - item 4-d of the Canada Student Loans Act.
Johnny
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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SingleMomOfTwo
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Posted: 03/April/2012 at 3:49am |
While I could be wrong (and that could work to my benefit in this case) I hazard that the limitation will not apply to me, since I've contacted the bank, my MP and HRSDC to seek help in trying to resolve the debt. I've also made a payment as recent as Dec 2011, although payments have been sporadic and minimal at best. Not sure if that's enough info to determine whether it will apply to my situation or not?
I thought I was seeking assistance to file with the courts to have the loan discharged, but with this new information that you've been so kind to share, I'm not sure what course of action I should be taking and what I should be seeking your assistance with. Either way, I'm interested in talking offline about what the options are and what it all will entail.
Can you please let me know what the next step is in working together?
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 03/April/2012 at 6:29am |
SingleMomOfTwo wrote:
I've also made a payment as recent as Dec 2011, although payments have been sporadic and minimal at best. |
You did not mention this in your opening post describing your situation. This may have reset the limitation clock unfortunately.
If the debt is not statute barred then you may be better served making an application to have the debt discharged. This is something you can do yourself if you wanted to. All you have to do is present your situation and demonstrate hardship and any extenuating circumstances, and that you have demonstrated good faith. There is a guide that the bankrupty courts have that they can give out to former bankrupts. If you would like help putting your demonstration together we can help you there if need be.
You figure out what you want to do and then what remedy you want to attempt.
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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SingleMomOfTwo
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Posted: 03/April/2012 at 8:14am |
You're absolutely right, I didn't mention it originally so while they're not chasing me I think the clock is still ticking.
Ah, there's a guide for the process? So all I need to do is contac tthe bankrupcty court and ask for this? I have dabbled with court documents before, when I had no choice but to represent myself to seek child support and custody, so I will give it my best on my own. However, any help would be most appreciated! Thanks again, for all of your time and support!
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SingleMomOfTwo
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Posted: 03/April/2012 at 8:30am |
Sorry to have left that out and potentially waste some of your time, I honestly didn't think that it was relevant. Cheers.
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 03/April/2012 at 1:38pm |
If you want help snapping it together you can holler at me.
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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SingleMomOfTwo
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Posted: 03/April/2012 at 6:01pm |
Great, thanks
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SingleMomOfTwo
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Posted: 05/April/2012 at 1:50pm |
I must have ESP or something....what arrived in the mailbox today? A collection notice...its been assigned to a new agency :(
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SingleMomOfTwo
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Posted: 11/April/2012 at 3:31am |
Johnny, or anyone else. Can you please, please help. I finally got the *right person* on the phone. They told me that, while I live in Ottawa, this is a Toronto file because this is where the bankruptcy was filed. They gave me an email address to request a court date, but said that there is absolutely no "do it yourself package". All they would say is that: I need to request a court date; I need to serve the motion on the applicable parties; then I need to bring the motion with an affidavit of service to 330 University Ave, 7th Floor with $50; and appear on my court date.
I have no idea what needs to go into this motion, or how to go about serving HRSDC/Scotiabank (or even if they are the people that I need to serve!?), or how to get an affidavit of service. Please help. Thank you very much!!!!
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administrator
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Posted: 11/April/2012 at 3:47am |
Who told you this? Who is the 'right person' Have you talked to your trustee?
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Administrator Mark OMeara Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024
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SingleMomOfTwo
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Posted: 11/April/2012 at 4:03am |
My trustee said there was nothing they could do for me, other than maybe help me file another bankruptcy or proposal, and that I had to talk to an insolvency lawyer. Last Thursday, I was able to get an insolvency lawyer to agree to meet me for a free consult , but he told me it'd run me $3K-$5K...not an option. I spoke to the bankruptcy court in Ottawa that referred me to the bankruptcy court in Toronto....which is where I received the advice and then was figuratively shoved into the dark corner of unknown again <sigh>
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footloose
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Posted: 12/April/2012 at 10:13am |
@SingleMomofTwo
I have contacted the Bankruptcy Court Office in London, Ontario and confirmed that there is NO PACKAGE AVAILABLE at any Courthouse in Ontario to walk you through the Subsection 178(1.1) application process. However, after much discussion, they agreed to send me a copy of an application that was made and that was successful in obtaining their student loans being extinguished in a prior bankruptcy. They will blank out all the personal information but leave the rest as an example or guideline to follow in making a Subsection 178(1.1) application.
I am authorizing Mark O'Meara, Administrator to send you my email address. When you receive it, send me an email and after I receive this package from the London Bankruptcy Office, I will arrange to send you a copy of this package so that you can see a sample of the application process.
I was told by the clerk at the Bankruptcy Office that there is no formal Form number or particular Name to these forms other than they are known as a Notice of Motion with Affidavit and an Affidavit of Service to show that you have served all parties affected by this application. In other words, the application is made from "scratch".
Never having received a CSL or declaring bankruptcy, needless to say, I have never made an application under Subsection 178(1.1), so this is a learning experience for me. When making this application, you do not require the services of a lawyer. It's much like filing an income tax return. Either you can do it yourself or hire someone to do it for you. Your choice.
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administrator
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Posted: 13/April/2012 at 4:21am |
Footloose, Thanks, Singlemomoftwo, please send me an email at webmaster@canadastudentdebt.ca
Footloose, perhaps you can scan it and we can post it on this site.
Mark
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Administrator Mark OMeara Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024
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SingleMomOfTwo
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Posted: 13/April/2012 at 4:45am |
Footloose - After having just been diagnosed with an ulcer earlier this week - you've really made my day and I can't thank you enough!! Hiring someone is not an option, so this guide that you've been able to obtain is exactly what I need! You've provided some light at the end of this long tunnel - seriously!!!! Now, I'll take the step of booking my court date.
Footloose and Mark, thank you so verrryyy much!!!!!
Mark, I'm contacting you now.
Happy Friday the 13th - it's a happy and lucky one for me :)
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administrator
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Posted: 13/April/2012 at 12:14pm |
SingleMomofTwo... just sent you Footloose's email as per the permission posted.
Hope it all works out....let us know how this goes.... perhaps you can email me the documents so we can post here.
Regards, Mark
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Administrator Mark OMeara Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 16/April/2012 at 5:13am |
Some bankruptcy courts have a guide that they do provide bankrupts though. You can also search Canlaw and there should be lots of cases that you can use to formulate and complete your application. There are a bunch of them here:
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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