This website is a testimony to the problems Canadian Student Loan borrowers experienced from approximately 1996 to 2008 and until their loans were paid off.

The privatization of the Student Loans system by the Chretien and Martin Liberal governments broke the system and defaulted thousands of borrowers who were trying to pay their loans. There were even stories of suicide due to the harassment of borrowers.

Read the report that I prepared back in 2007 here. Canada Student Loans-The Need for Change Fortunately the new Conservative government at the time revamped the program and fixed the system for new borrowers, but borrowers under the previous program were left with ruined credit and continued harassment from debt collectors.

I call on the Canadian Government to apologize to the borrowers affected by this fiasco and make amends.

Unfortunately the Liberal government is again clobbering the Education system with their upcoming changes to International Student Visas. Yes, there's a problem, but instead of a well thought out plan, they have pulled the emergency brake on the train causing a derailment. This has introduced unprecedented instability for both private and public education institutions who serve both international and local students.

Universities can't plan. I've heard of courses being cut because the government has no process in place for universities to send the newly required acceptance letters to the government.

This means that students who have been accepted can not attend courses that start in the summer 2024 semester. With cut sections, current Canadian students will have trouble getting courses, and may have to switch to part-time which changes their enrollment status and might trigger repayment of their loans or ineligibility for funding. I've seen this before. It wreaks havoc on the student loan borrowers.

Again, the Liberal government has messed up the education environment. Will the new system needed in a rush for the acceptance letters be the new Arrivecan scandal?

I call on the government to implement a slower phased in approach and delay the requirement of the acceptance letters until a process is in place to submit these letters.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Royal-NCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/June/2016 at 2:33pm
By the way, I am not arguing hubby should provide any kind of cooperation with either Jane or NSLSC.  This is all on Jane.  She has her basic living expenses covered.  There is no reason why she can't get out there and work a part-time job to pay her debt.  If she wants to at the same time argue that she's not benefiting from her education, ok, but it IS her responsibility to pay her debt in the meantime.
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You want to talk morality?  Those debts should be paid for by college education work, not by part time minimum wage work, not by hubby.  Ok?  This is not a separate issue to RAP, this is the same thing. You can't pay off your college loans by college work, then RAP should be available.  Don't talk to me about poverty, I've probably been poor longer than you've been alive, THAT IS WHY I WENT TO SCHOOL. 

How many of us even think twice when we borrow so much money to attend school?  Isn't education pummeled into our heads at a young age?  You are not born into money, that is what you do, borrow it. Plain and simple.  Did anyone tell us this would be a crap shoot?  No one told me that.  I was told I would be well off afterwards, living on milk and honey, coming home after work, drinking some wine, relaxing in all the things I have paid for.  Sigh, I have worked so many contract positions my resume looks a mess.  A couple of them were for one month only.  Do you hope and pray for enough hours for EI in between?  I have.  

Look, Royal, I see your point.  I have my own issues of grieving to deal with.  Right now, I can't escape denial.  I am enjoying my denial.  This weekend I am cleaning the ditches along the highway to get some contacts with some people.  Keep yourself visible.  We would be paying our debts if we were given some means to do so.  

If I was alone and on welfare, I know I would be doing what I'm doing now, trying to stay in my field of study, but I would have RAP.  I know what your saying is that I don't worry about hydro bills or food bills or stuff like that.  And its true, I don't.  This means I have the time and energy to put in the job search and only the job search.  I'm driven, its a dream I have spent years on.  And I still walk with my head in the clouds.  

On another note,  as far as wondering about protecting my assets, I think I covered that one somewhere in my earlier comments.  In a common-law relationship there is no security, thus no assets, unless I put my name on a few things, which I am not gonna.  I did read where liens can be put on these things anyway, which is funny for I would not have access to them myself.  So, what can happen and what does happen is a crap shoot too.  The funny thing is that it would be stats barred if I let it go into default 8 years ago instead of trying to be honest.  

Royal I know you are upset, but you are being mean.  I have tried every means possible to maintain some sort of dignity.  To pay my debts, I've worked really hard.  My course I studied in was very hard, and I have not reaped any of the benefits of it.  I know some who are just living mediocre lives, wolves are at the door, and its funny that you can take a dedicated and honest person and turn them into crap.  
"Jane has no responsibilities, has a lot of money".  You know, if I was you I'd be saying the same thing too.  This whole thing sucks.  

But on a happier note, I will be in contact with people this weekend, gaining ground, getting some leverage.  So the next 48 hours look very promising, so I am not going to let next week scare me while I have this to look forward to.

 
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Jane,

I am basically the same age as you.  45.  Sorry, but you don't own the right to "poverty", and living the life of self-pity isn't going to get you through this problem.

I am ticked off with you, because you are CURRENTLY IN GOOD STANDING!  Don't F it up!!  Do you want to be proud and feel sorry for yourself - angry at the system that you can't pay off your debt with career related income?  Sure, go for it.  Spend the next 10 or so years until you're 60, hiding from the system.  That's what I did.  Royal Bank screwed me with their mistakes, so I got stubborn and refused to pay.  Who did I really hurt with this particular stunt???

You have a golden opportunity here.  You are in a good relationship with a well-heeled man.  Use this opportunity to keep your loans in good standing!!  Go get busy!  Find a part-time job and continue paying your debt.  If in the process of doing this you want to file a claim that you shouldn't be paying on the basis that you aren't using your education, so be it, go for it? 

By the way, I too am not using my education.  I too couldn't find gainful work in my field. Unfortunately, my wife earns very little.  Why?  Because she's been busy at home caring for my 2 and 4 year old!  I paid off the provincial debt with work that is slightly better than minimum wage.  The Federal debt is statute barred, but it feels really ugly knowing that it sits in the background getting bigger and bigger with interest.   

Don't sit there feeling sorry for yourself because this causes depression.  It puts pressure on your current relationship.  It makes it harder for you to find work.  It causes your reality where you're defined as "not a good fit".

  
DON'T BE PROUD AND DESTROY YOUR CURRENT GOOD STANDING!!!  GET YOUR BUTT OUT THERE AND FIND SOME PART-TIME WORK.  THEN ASK JOHNNY TO HELP YOU FILE FOR RELIEF ON THE BASIS THAT YOU AREN'T USING YOUR EDUCATION.

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Originally posted by Jane50 Jane50 wrote:

This means I have the time and energy to put in the job search and only the job search.  I'm driven, its a dream I have spent years on.  And I still walk with my head in the clouds.  

Well, aren't you lucky!  The rest of us who are ALSO struggling to find work in our field, HAVE bills to pay.  We don't have that luxury.  Even if Royal Bank hadn't screwed with me, I still wouldn't qualify for RAP because in my effort to support my family, my income is now too high.  But, alas, I'm not working in my field.

Average minimum wage in Canada $10.50.  Your monthly loan payment $450.  42.8 hours of work each month.  10 HOURS/WEEK.   That's all I ask of you!!   

I'm working 60 hours a week.  So are many people.  

Do you realize how many people in Canada have gone to university yet pursued careers unrelated to their degree?  Nobody ever promised you a job in your field!!
 


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You should have been able to qualify for RAP as you have 2 little kids, and a wife who doesn't make very much, I'm surprised it wasn't offered.  I was offered RAP when I made good money, the work was unstable, maybe that was the reason why.  I even got on RAP when I screwed it up, when I was too busy, back in the day when you had to call them, they sent the application, you filled it out, sent it back. Life was too crazy at times for me to get it right.  They fixed it for me.  I was, two months over the time limit.  And many times after that, they started to send me reminders, which I appreciated.  Heck, I was even able to buy a relatively good car during those times.  I do know lots and lots of people had issues with RAP, however.  

So how did the Royal bank screw it up for you?  We can't let them, and just ignore it.  But if we fight them, we tend to lose our ground, and no one wants to help us anymore.  If we approach things with a combative attitude the good people who can help will get away from you.  Depression comes and it goes, as it always has.  It is not something to worry about.  

So what is wrong with pride and dignity?  Those are rather very precious commodities to have in life. Wouldn't be able to hold down a life without it, not a job, not a relationship, nothing.  You'll even drive your kids crazy if you don't lift yourself out of the despair.  Maybe you are trying to tell me that pride in your case didn't help you.  I was diagnosed with PTSD from taking care of my elderly mother.  She got very mean and spiteful at old age.  That was just a few years ago.  I get the feeling that the doctors didn't want to help her too much.  It was like everyone was just waiting for this all to be over with.  Its so sad.  

Since this topic is about RAP, I guess what I should say is that I don't feel RAP can penalize me for what the spouse makes.  If you just wanted to say that I should just get my butt out there and try since I do have this chance, that you have learned and wanted to share that, I really wish you would have just done that.  
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Jane,

Whatever you try to say here, you need to keep it in good standing if at all possible.  You won't qualify for relief if you're more than 90 days in arrears.

Sorry to drag my stuff into this, but I can hear your anger and frustration and don't want you to blow it.  10 hours of menial work per week while you argue your case is nothing compared with the stress of a defaulted student loan!




My story:

Its a long drawn out story and you can read my history here if you want.

https://www.google.ca/#q=royal-nco+site:canadastudentdebt.ca

I had two sets of loans:  one from the old system with Royal Bank; one from the new system with OSAP

Basically, I have concluded that I got caught up in the Bank's transition out of active management of student loans in the mid 2000s.  My return to school document was lost and by the time the problem was discovered, it was too late to get a new document, and the original wasn't accepted because it was long past the time limit.  I couldn't afford to bring my loans back into good standing.  Anyhow, I ( in hindsight) foolishly told both groups of loans where to shove ir when neither side cared to acknowledge the lost documents as their mistake.  For three years before that, I had just dutifully signed the documents and trusted that Royal Bank had been notified of my status.  For three years everything was fine.  On the fourth year something went wrong.

Johnny, you and I have already discussed this on the phone.

Anyhow,  it was a good feeling to finally clear the Ontario portion of the OSAP loan.  The fed portion is statute barred, but with improved financial situation and inheritance coming in the next couple of months, I don't feel good about avoiding the fed portion which has increased from 29K to over 42K with interest.  I have a statement of account from them from last June that shows it was removed from active recovery in March of 2013.  I may clear the outstanding interest and rehabilitate this loan.


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The way the system is set up, rehabilitatiing the loan may only cause financial hardship as it may destroy your credit rating again.

While it is honorable to try to pay the loan back, remember that the system is so broken that you may be actually punished for trying to do so. They will smell money and will the collections will start harassing you. Remember this is a defaulted bank loan... the worst kind....  

Take care of yourself first.  And maybe work with Johnny for a settlement offer. 
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Originally posted by administrator administrator wrote:

The way the system is set up, rehabilitatiing the loan may only cause financial hardship as it may destroy your credit rating again.

While it is honorable to try to pay the loan back, remember that the system is so broken that you may be actually punished for trying to do so. They will smell money and will the collections will start harassing you. Remember this is a defaulted bank loan... the worst kind....  

Take care of yourself first.  And maybe work with Johnny for a settlement offer. 

Yes, this is my fear.  Actually, it looks like only about 2K of that is the Federal portion originally owed to RBC.  The rest is the federal portion owed to the new loans through OSAP.  All of it is with CRA, statute barred, and out of active collections.

However, yes, the renewed harassment and possible destroyed credit is the primary concern.  

And this, Jane, is why you must do everything you can to make those payments while you argue your case.  You can ill afford at this stage in your life the harassment and potential destroyed credit.  One day, you may find you are actively working in your field and you will curse the damage done to your credit and potential legal consequences as you try to move forward in your life.  There is truly no really good excuse for you not to get out there and work a few hours a week so that you can save your own ass while you argue your case.  Don't head into your late 50s and 60s harassed by defaulted student loans.  It will kill you way too early in your life.
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Gee, Mark.  I read online they are all about rehabilitating those loans.  They make it sound so good and so easy.  but its really like walking into a pack of wolves I guess.  I'm scared of that system.  They drop this into my lap right away like this, expect me to come up with a payment, now, I started to feel so sick, I mean bent over the bathroom sick,  I think I have some sort of virus.  

I never said I'm gonna default.  I practically live in a one horse town.  Very few stores, where I can make anything like Royal is saying.  I know a few women friends who want those jobs so bad, been unemployed themselves for quite a while, and I'm almost a decade out of the retail business.  I did put my name in a while ago, but it seems like my skillset is geared to this only one thing I do, what I learned.  What I paid for, or not paid for yet.  Thats another thing, I don't want to default for, I already paid a handsome sum already, RAP is not always free.  Its like a geared to income pay.  

But they did offer me the interest only.  $130 a month.  And apparently default doesn't happen for 9 months.  That's what I read online anyway.  I did apply for jobs all over the country even.  I was willing to relocate at some point earlier on, but I have my children to think of too.  Once they went on their own, I was not able to take them, I was not wanting to move anymore.  Once my relationship happened, well we can't move.  Here is where his job is.  I've been alone for decades, he is the first guy I've been with since my tumultuous marriage, he himself was in an abusive relationship himself.  We are good together.  

I could babysit to earn that much, $130 a month.  I've had people who ask me, but I've been unable to due to career pursuits.  I so wished we could live a good life as equals, I hate the position I'm in, not able to help my family.  

I know I was taking things said here bad.  I've felt so stupid, scared, and literally sick.  Not that I need the good credit, I've never lived with either good or bad credit, I've somehow managed without it.  Just that I don't know what else the government is going to do to me.  I don't think anyone can answer that question, but there would be stress just wondering.
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It's good to want to fix the outstanding debt,  but if its sleeping, its probably best to leave it be.  Honestly, they've been bugging me, and only because I called to ask a few questions, and I'm sure if I didn't even try for RAP they would have let it go till a lot more time has passed.  Till I could put things together, but instead they are making me sick.  I shudder to think of anyone even trying to rehabilitate a loan.  I wish they would make it easier.  
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A bit of history:
There are three or four periods for loans. 
1995-2000   2000-2006 and then onwards...theres a post somewhere on the site.
There were guaranteed loans, risk shared loans and then a new program. There was Interest relief (a totally f**ked up program) and now RAP which is quite different.

People could end up with 6 different loans depending when they went to school.

CIBC defaulted thousands of people who were paying, because they took the automated withdrawal system off line without telling anyone. Nobody's payments came out. They all got defaulted.  We had people on the site begging CIBC to take their money...They all got defaulted and sent to collections.

Rehabilitation rules were ignored by collection agencies and the banks...

Don't default, because if they ask for your info when HE applies for the mortgage renewal, you may be denied a new mortgage, or have to pay 18% on a high risk mortgage, because of your default.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jane50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/June/2016 at 1:38pm
The government just took back my gst and trillium going all the way back to 2013, although we only became common law this last tax period.  $945 right away, and we had to rush to pay it cause the letter said so.  We called the tax office and they said it goes that way, no explanation.  Except that it goes back 13 months.  We didn't do anything wrong, mind you, just this is what they do.  Hubby has an accountant that does the taxes, and he doesn't even get it.  Took away my RAP, take this away, there is no independence at all.  

Happy Canada Day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/June/2016 at 8:51pm
Jane, that is horrible. System is broken. 
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
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A number of posts have been removed from this topic because they have nothing to do with this forum topic.  If two people want to discuss something they should not do it here. 

Back to helping Jane please.
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Jane, what did you study? Did you complete? 
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
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Jane,

You need to initiate a formal dispute for the Trillium and HST.  Do you have an online account with CRA?  There is an option there: Register my Formal Dispute.  How long have you been living with your partner.  Can you prove that you were not living with him before that?  2013??  Did you mean to say 2015?
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Jane wrote: "We called the tax office and they said it goes that way, no explanation" 

Doesn't that just make you cringe? 
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

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Yes it makes me want to cringe, and yes, they took it all back going back to 2013.  We have nothing saying we were living together that long.  I did live here, but  I claimed single on my income tax, and so did he.  But that is not the reason why they did it, they said that is what they do.  I had my own income, I got EI until late last year.  I only made about $12000 for the year, and about the same the year before.  I was entitled to the gst and hst, but they didn't even explain it.  It just goes back 13 months is all she said.  We were living together but I claimed single, I had my reasons.  It just is not so simple to go it alone, and either is being with someone.  I was somewhere in between not sure and sure. I might be ready for marriage but that is a while we have to go.  

It looks like I can make at least the interest only payment right now.  I'm watching my daughter's baby (2 months old) she gets paid by the government for babysitting while she attends school.  And I want some money for Christmas, I'm also looking into doing the Amazon HITS site for money, MTurk.  I'm not sure what it pays, but its something, and if I need help, I will ask hubby, what else can I do?  He has his own trustability issues, we are still taking baby steps, this is what we need to do.  

Oh, and Johnny I studied chemistry, and yes I got through the whole program.  And graduated.  Loved it, was exciting and fun, then I entered the world to work and I got all the grunge work.  I didn't mind, I felt this was "paying my dues", but I did that for almost a decade  I keep thinking it might be that I'm female, and they only want to hire men to do that job, but how can you take that as an issue and prove it?  Plus, I was older, but I don't look my age.  I get that I'm 15 years younger.  

I don't mind paying the $130 a month, and if things get better for me, maybe I'll pay more, but this is the least minimum I can pay.  I don't mind paying that even for the rest of my life, and hope they can just take the money out of my account monthly and I will never hear from them again.  But I guess I will hear from them again, as I know interest does go up.  

As well, I guess it would be right to say that I did make money off my education, more than the loan is, scattered over 8 years, I guess I have made enough.  Just now I'm having to practically having to take in the neighbour's laundry to pay it.  

RAP did serve me well, as a single parent, but it won't help me now in a relationship with an established partner.  But this is his stuff he did to create his life, it wasn't me.  I only love him for his calm demeanor, and its easy to be around him, no strife, and money, he does pay for everything here, no questions asked.  He has not asked me where is my part in all this.  That's why I do what I can to help him in his career.  Make his life easier.  I can understand why RAP is not available for me now.  Well, sort of, but I take issue to not having the money to pay for myself.  As far as the other people having to struggle while not being able to afford those payments, then having the stress, creditors on their back, income tax being taken, and future being held in lock down and perhaps eventual seizure, its scary.  I'm grateful that I only have to pay this one thing.  But I haven't told hubby yet that I will still not be able to help out in paying for stuff around here.  Just paying my own bills.  But that's less scary than having to face default.  

But I did want to default.  I wanted to tell them to go shove it.  But like Royal said we have no power, they have all the power, so yes, I'm glad I came here, I didn't understand.  I only thought that defaulting means that I don't bother with the mess anymore.  But I know that isn't true.  They will find some way to seize something of hubby's.  So yeah, pay as best as you can pay, take in laundry, feed the neighbour's cat, do something, if there is no job, find something to pay it.  

I'm probably going to sell some of my things, work as I can find the work, throw it all into a bank account that the student loan office can have, I'll never take from it, and I never want to hear from them again.  
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Jane,

The system is not sympathetic, unfortunately.  They will collect their piece of flesh if they can get away with it.

In your case, if your partner bought his house before he met you, and if you remain common law partners, there is very little they can actually do to come after his money.  Having said that, if you can avoid it, you really don't want to default.  You've exposed a lot more about yourself now and I can see how difficult it is for you to get temporary work.  

What is this arrangement you've made with them exactly.  Did you manage to qualify for some type of RAP anyhow? Are you certain that this arrangement keeps you in good standing, or do this smaller payments gradually grind you into a default state over a number of months.  Do you understand what I mean?  If your payment is $450, and you're paying $120, you're falling behind at a rate of $330/month.  This extends your time to default from 9 months to 12 months.   Don't just pay the $120 and forget about it; you may find you're still sent to collections.  Furthermore, if you're falling behind, any future RAP qualification will require you to get caught up with your payments first.  

Johnny, please fill her in exactly how the RAP rules work now because I don't know for sure.

Anyhow, I understand the frustration.  I am NOT stuck now, but I very definitely was for many years.  I was forced into default by their errors and denied any kind of RAP or interest relief.  Johnny now thinks I should just quietly pay, risk further damage to my credit, and risk my family's quality of life.  Nobody really cares, anyhow.  Everybody is in it for whatever they can take.  Why shouldn't I have the same attitude.  If I pay, and everything goes smoothly, everybody wins.  If I pay and my credit is destroyed, I have lost substantial productivity and greatly damaged the well-being of my dependants.
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Jane50 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jane50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/July/2016 at 2:12pm
She told me that I can pay the interest only, which is $130 a month.  I will not qualify for RAP, he makes way too much money.  I will be denied.  Are you saying making interest only payments will still send me into default?  I know the payment is $450, but the interest only payment is $130.  Can I just pay that?  The interest only?
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