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spacemonkeyham
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Topic: 10 year period reduced to 5- rumor? Posted: 13/March/2004 at 9:09am |
I went to see a bankruptcy trustee for the first time yesterday and he said that in the near future, the federal goverment will be reducing the 10 period that prevents students from claiming bankruptcy on their student loans down to five years. Has anyone heard anything about this ?
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2Laural
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Posted: 13/March/2004 at 11:03am |
From what I understand, there will be discussions in May this year about changes to the BIA, including the change from 10 to 5 years.
However, many in the Bankruptcy community do not believe that the changes will take effect until 2005 when the BIA changes are enacted by parliament.
L
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hunter
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Posted: 15/March/2004 at 9:26am |
Yes 2Laural is correct.
I contacted several "other" trustees who were knowledgeable and they told me that these changes will take effect in 2005.
So this is something to hope for.
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skint
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Posted: 20/March/2004 at 11:18am |
The Senate Committee charged with looking at this issue recommended a reduction from 10 years to 5, however, it has not been brought to House of Commons yet. If and when it is, it will still have to go through debate, and then await assent before it can be proclaimed law. God knows how long it will take after that before they get all the policies straight. 2005 is possible, but also somewhat optimistic. Let's face it --bankruptcies resulting from student loans are not an election issue, so it's not as though the Liberals will be chomping at the bit to help anyone in our position. They don't have to --that's the problem. Now if we were bankers....
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hunter
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Posted: 23/March/2004 at 5:15am |
You get so many different stories from so many different people. I called the Superintendant of Bankruptcy, Industry Canada, and other trustees, and some of them had no clue of what is happening.
How sad that these people do not even know their own departments. My trustee had no idea that the BIA stated that after 10 years of leaving school that you can apply to the courts and try to have the loans discharged bankruptcy. I had to send her the information, and she never ever returned my phone call.
How pathetic. And to think that she was so helpful when I was paying her $ 1500.00 to file for bankruptcy.
I personally think some of these people play dumb, so that you don't find out the information that you know is available.
Like I said before, these departments that are in place to supposedly help, are the ones, that try to screw you in the end.
Its just my thoughts
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SolveStudentDebt
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Joined: 05/November/2003
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Posted: 23/March/2004 at 4:08pm |
It always seems to be the way, doesn't it?
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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kate
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Posted: 24/March/2004 at 1:25pm |
I was hearing almost three years ago about the reduction from 10 years to 5 years.
I filed for bancruptcy almost three years ago. Apparently for three years you are under the umbrella of protection from the bancruptcy and can't be hassled by them. I was told by my trustees at that time that within months they expected to have a change inthe policy. So I am not all that hopeful as to wheter or not it will happen in 2005 or any other time soon.
What I am waiting to see is if because I filed for bancruptcy in 2001, if in 2007 when my loan is ten years old, if I can retroactively include it in my bancruptcy. I was told yes and I was told maybe by my trustees. I was also told I had to wait until the time of applying.
I originally missed the deadline of being able to include a student loan in a bancruptcy by one month. I was told by the person advising me at the time that I would have to wait two years to be able to file. He said that if I had filed then I would have to file a second bancruptcy in two years. When I went back in two years I was told that I should have filed then and the studaent loan would have been discharged at the two year time even though I had filed at two years prior. In the mean time the time had changed to 10 years out of school before being able to include it in a bancruptcy.
I am scared to death of how I will survive as my debt load is about 60,000 after having raised two children while a student (plus almost 20,000 in interest). Between the end of my bancruptcy protection period and my actual possiblly being able to discharge it will be some pretty scary coulple of years.
I am currently working in Korea because I can't even find decent work to even come close to do anything other than surviving that alone paying on a huge debt.
I am 44 so will still never see the day I dobt that I am debt free.
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When we face what we're afraid of we find out what we're made of. Dido
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peewee
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Posted: 27/May/2004 at 7:38am |
I found the following document that is related to the PC party's website. i did a "look up" on google, but could only access the document using google's cache. the following is the message that appears on the beginning of the page but the actual link is pasted below it:
This is G o o g l e's cache of http://www.pcparty.ca/site/doc/842/.
hopefully it can be viewed by those interested. among other things, it outlines what the pc party will do to tackle the problem of student loan debt. it specifically states that they will reduce the waiting period for bankruptcy to 5 years (from the current 10).
however, from everything i've read it sounds like this incentive is likely to happen regardless of who leads the country.... just a matter of time. but really whether it be 5 years or 10, any waiting period translates into years of hardship. and if you happen to get a good job, say after 4 years of waiting and interest accumulating, then the chances of being discharged are small due to your increased ability to pay. so then you can take your big paycheque and apply it to your SL that has grown substantially during the years in which you were unable to pay. this is what bugs me more than anything. it's not just a matter of paying back what you borrowed, but also paying for the time (via interest accumulation) in which you were destitute. so in effect, you are penalized for being poor. but i guess this is just the way things are and the SL issue is certainly not the only instance in which this type of phenomenon occurs. so once again i remind myself that it takes money to make money and that's precisely why i've got none. anyways, the link is posted below:
http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:Juvl2pMZ11kJ:www.pcparty .ca/site/doc/842/+%22Bankrupt+students+were+told+their+stude nt+loan%22&hl=en
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peewee
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Posted: 27/May/2004 at 7:41am |
sorry, but regarding the link i just pasted, to get to the education part in the link i pasted just keep scrolling down on the page (this was not obvious to me at first)
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gov blows
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Posted: 31/May/2004 at 9:59pm |
This whole thing is ridiculous. 10 years? 5 years? 2 years? What the hell... even one month is not acceptable. Why is everyone so happy about 5 years. Bankruptcy is a constitutional right. The only people not protected by this right are deadbeat parents, and convicts. Now inlcude students?? The Senate committee report is as retarded as the people who drafted it. Wow, what a favour, reducing by 5 years. This is like someone who decides it's right to punch you in the head 10 times when you walk by their house, and then so graciously reduce it to 5 jabs. Thanks so much. I finally realize why people take things into their own hands- steal, cheat, lie- because policy makers are brain-dead. Let's see what the moron judge will say about the upcoming court case. No doubt some filth will come out of his mouth that he thinks is logical.
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peewee
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Posted: 01/June/2004 at 2:50am |
gov blows
EXACTLY!!!!! thank you for pointing that out. so what if you only have t0 make it for 5 years before you can file bankruptcy. most of us are finding it hard to make it throught the day.
in my case 5 years still translates into 7 as i will be in school for 2 more years even though i fell into bankruptcy last year. so by the time i'm even done school, i'll owe about 15,000 dollars more just in interest. this is what pisses me off the most.
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gov blows
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Posted: 01/June/2004 at 9:40pm |
Well , here's a question. as most people here know, the court challenge on the bankruptcy issue is on June 16th. ... but what changes even if the judge sides with the good guys... it still doesn't change the law does it? anyone trying to discharge SL's after a judgment would still have to go to court to challenge the law again- a costly affair- with only the June 16th judgment as precedent. and everyone also knows these judges disagree with each other all the time- I'm not a lawyer- but I think the government only changes laws when there has been an overwhelming reversal of their stupid laws by judges. Who knows how long that would take....
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peewee
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Posted: 02/June/2004 at 5:24am |
well, here's the thing....
my bankruptcy has yet to be discharged. My trustee has kept it going beyong the usual 9 months as weare waiting for a decision to be made regarding the challenge. so, if by some small miracle, the decision is in OUR favour, then i will be immediately taking the necessary steps (whatever they might be) to have my SL's discharged as well. so i might be able to have some answere regarding your questions as my situation unfolds.
but i agree with you again. i'm not hopeful that the laws will change, and even if a judge agrees with us, what about an appeal process? I too am not a lawyer, but i know enough to know that there's always a catch.
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pmwattshui
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Posted: 03/June/2004 at 7:33am |
I was in college doing teacher training and just before I graduated I was falsely accused of sexual harrasment. The college was prepared to back my accusers in court. I did not have the money to fight it out in court so I had to leave. I went to a treacher training program at another place. I had to start all over again on student loan . When I was coming to graduation again the new place called the old college to see why I left and get references etc. so I was told. When they found out what happened I was all of a sudden not suitable to teach. Having 7 years of school no money no degree and large debt I decided to finish a BA in history so I could have something. Since student loans will give out money for anything to anybody. I was able to borrow money for another two years. I am now $80,000 in debt plus interest. I have a low salary as I am only a clerk. I am told that I must pay aprox 1100/month for 14.5 years. This is far beyond my ability to pay. There is no negotiation!! Since there was no negotiation and I was told to simply find the money or else they would just take it and put a lien on my bank account. I really got scared so I went into bankruptcy in hopes that the 10 year rule will change to 5 years soon. And get a break from collection calls. I would be happy to pay for one degree but to pay for three degrees is to much since the problems why my debt got so high were not my fault.
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debtsucks
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Posted: 10/June/2004 at 10:14pm |
Hi all,
I am not a lawyer either, however, I understand that our country is governed by precendent and if a judgement comes down on June 16, 2004 in favour of us then from that day forward anyone who has been out of school for the 5 years or whatever the judge rules; hopefully less because our Federal Gov are assholes; will be able to declare bankruptcy and wipe out thier loans or grandfather it into a previous bankruptcy to wipe out their loans.
I resent the Government treating student loan bankrupts as criminals. Maybe the Gov could come and kick me in the groin while their at it. Talk about mean spirited people. Gee, wish I got their wages! They earn more than the vast majority of Canadians and setup laws to hurt the most inpoverished. Thanks for being Canadian! ****! I never guessed I would come to dislike Canadian society so much. It is a real shame and makes me really sad.
Good Luck to all and think positive,
RC
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gov blows
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Posted: 11/June/2004 at 6:17am |
I appreciate you trying to be positive, i'm still beginning to think this whole court case thing will be a waste of time and source of misled hope. I've read somewhere else on this site by a good source (johnny?) that 10 year 5 year, 2 year, 0 years- it doesn't matter what it is, Judges will still be persuaded by government lawyers to not relieve student debt- maybe something to do with that students will benefit from education of which they can't return upon bankruptcy, putting them at an unfair advantage. (however their argument that students will advantage from their education for their lifetime is somewhat offset by the fact that so few percentage of students actually work in the field they got their education). but how do you expect moron judges and gov's to understand this?
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peewee
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Posted: 11/June/2004 at 7:27am |
i agree with gov blows!
i know that the argument as presented above ( i.e. "students will benefit from education of which they can't return upon bankruptcy") is one that is used often although one could make a similar argument for all consumer debt:
a consumer benefits from a cash advance on a credit card which isn't returned upon bankruptcy
also, an education is worthless (in terms of dollars) if it is dated. if you don't get a chance to use your newly acquired skills then you lose them. lord knows i've pretty much forgotten first year physics and chemistry.
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debtsucks
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Posted: 11/June/2004 at 9:10am |
That is a pretty weak argument that ( i.e. "students will benefit from education of which they can't return upon bankruptcy"). As peewee pointed out every debt you incur and get discharged at bankruptcy could be considered "benefit from which they can't return upon bankruptcy". The whole point of bankruptcy is to give a person a new start. Something that the Fed Gov is discriminating against students with their 10 year waiting period. Totally ignorant. I am going to see my MP about this and see what avenues there are to resolve this. This is so wrong and unjust!!!
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kate
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Posted: 12/June/2004 at 6:35pm |
The argument that we benefit from our education is bogus. THat is like selling someone a car that is depreciating in value as each year goes by and is also unable to be driven for a long time because shortly after the car was sold to you the special gas that it uses goes into shortage due to the same people who sold you the car.
The real issue with our student loans is that what we are saying is if after five years we still can't find employment that would make it easy to pay on our student loans by finding equitable employment...that would imply that we bought a bogus degree.
I personally think that if the government had been smart they would have done it this way: Each year that you are out of university that you are unable to make over a certain amount of money (use the same numbers that they use in the interest relief program...so that if you qualify for interest relief each year you qualify for this) you are forgiven 10% of your loan. If say after 5 years you get a good job...you still pay back 50% of your loan. You then feel like you paid something back and your five years of hardships due to government cutbacks on jobs (as in my field) etc. has not left you further in debt but instead able to take it from here and work on getting back on your feet. Everybody benefits a bit and loses a bit.
If you are out of school for ten years and still not able to get good employment then lets face it something went wrong in the economy and you get a fresh start....without having a bankruptcy.
That makes sense to me.
And as I said...if I bought a car and could not use it for the first 5 years I had it....should I still have to pay the full price for something that is now outdated??
Kate
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When we face what we're afraid of we find out what we're made of. Dido
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Casey
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Posted: 13/June/2004 at 2:34pm |
Hi Kate,
" If you are out of school for ten years and still not able to get good employment then lets face it something went wrong in the economy and you get a fresh start....without having a bankruptcy. "
AMEN to that
15 years have gone by and I'm still in SL hell. I'm broke, my life and mental health is ruined.
I'll be 65 in less than 10 years, then they can take my pension checks..
Casey . . .
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