Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
State-Side
Newbie
Joined: 20/May/2004
Points: 1
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Topic: A Million Pounds Lighter Posted: 20/May/2004 at 10:31am |
Last week John LeBlanc successfully closed my stats barred
student loan. I am now free and clear. I can walk away. Yet in
front of me lies a money order made payable to HRDC. It is my
first voluntary payment.
Am I crazy? Maybe. What I do know is if I walk away I would be
left with the feeling that I took something that isn’t mine. I don’t
like that feeling and I don’t want to carry it around with me for
the rest of my life, even if it is only on a subconscious level.
More importantly though, I feel this decision will help me build
some self-esteem in the financial area of my life.
I am someone who gets completely overwhelmed by money. In
terms of my student loan, I defaulted because I was weighed
down by life. I got married; moved; became the main bread
winner while my husband began his doctoral studies; became
unemployed for over a year; became underemployed just to
make ends meet; grieved over the death of our baby and so on.
It was only a few months back that I realized that I couldn’t
remember paying my student loan off. As far as I could
remember it had been 5 or 6 years since I made a payment.
Why hadn’t a collection service placed a call? I felt ill. I didn’t
know what to do. I was living in the states and I couldn’t find my
SIN number. I was so worried and completely paralyzed by
fear.
I think it was around 3 in the morning, after convincing myself
that the Canadian government would arrest me and put me in
jail (resulting in divorce, life as a bitter, childless women, and
death) that I stumbled onto this web site. What a relief. I copied
down John LeBlanc’s contact information and went back to
bed.
I am so thankful that I called John. He is extremely good at what
he does. More importantly though, he was very patient and
kind towards me who, in the words of my husband, “is prone to
anxiety and worse case thinking.” He reassured me the only
outcome was a payment plan that I could afford.
To my surprise, John (and his posse of lawyers) discovered
that my loan was stats barred. He had HRDC deactivate my
account and notified me that I was free to walk away. And I can.
I can just walk away. But I choose not to. Instead, I have
decided to listen to my need to become financially aware and
responsible. I am not rich. I may only have work for the next 2
months. I may only be able to send HRDC $10 a month. But for
me, this is worth more than walking away from the balance of
my defaulted student loan.
Edited by State-Side
|
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
kevmetric
Groupie
Joined: 31/December/2003
Location: Canada
Points: 70
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20/May/2004 at 1:24pm |
Give me a break.
At the risk of sound rude, I think you needed
to see a psychologist, rather than a banker
or credit analyst.
Given the choice between wiping out a $10,000
loan (for example) and paying it $10 per month
and living miserably ...
|
|
SolveStudentDebt
Moderator Group
Joined: 05/November/2003
Location: Canada
Points: 5996
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20/May/2004 at 6:57pm |
Kevmetric,
I think you are a tad bit out of line. Why would you say that this individual needed a psychologist? and ... your rudeness outweighs risk from what you have stated.
This site is all about doing the right things. If a person chooses to do what State-Side is doing, what makes this wrong? I am sure that many people would opt to walk away from the debt, however, you could have chosen better wording in your posted response. You may feel that walking away from a debt is the right thing to do. Please don't hurt the feelings of others who are trying to do what they think is the right thing.
|
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
|
|
polyhymnia61
Member
Joined: 10/January/2003
Location: Netherlands
Points: 915
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21/May/2004 at 5:17am |
I think if more people out there, including the bankers and government types, had the decency and conscience of State-Side, we would all be better off...And this website would probably not be necessary.
Trying to do the right thing is not cause to be psychologically examined. However, I'm not so sure about anger and bitterness...
Poly
|
Home is where you are allowed to prosper.
|
|
6273kat
Senior Member
Joined: 28/April/2004
Location: Canada
Points: 100
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21/May/2004 at 5:32am |
I had to wait and then come back to this one before commenting.
Johnny has been very generous in his response to you-kevmetric. I would say you are way out of line.
State-Side has come to a very admirable conclusion and has made the best decision for HER. I think her honesty and integrity certainly represent why I came to this site.
I did not come here to find a way to get out of paying my debt, I came to find a productive method to cope with the negativity sometimes associated and to gather facts. Please refrain from such personal attacks, it is really uncalled for.
State-Side: Be very proud of your decision, as you have done what is right for you. Sometimes the easy way is not the best way.
Karla
|
|
1stepforward2bk
Groupie
Joined: 17/November/2003
Location: Canada
Points: 128
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21/May/2004 at 6:04am |
I just want to say that there are 2 types of people on this site, those that want to pay their loan and those that don't. Some people are here trying to find a way out of their responsibilities and some people are trying to find a way to deal with their responsibilities while still trying to have a life. The easiest road is to hide and avoid. The stuggle is trying to deal with people who are either incompetent or refuse to negotiate. This site for me has been about becoming aware and finding support to the fact that even though I am a SL debtor, I am not worthless nor do I deserve to suffer for the rest of my life for trying to make the right decision. I think that what State-Side has done not only maintain her end of an agreement but also her sense of worth and self-respect. She is only trying to make good of a bad situation.
|
|
Agent007
Groupie
Joined: 28/April/2004
Points: 44
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21/May/2004 at 6:38am |
1stepforward2bk wrote:
I just want to say that there are 2
types of people on this site, those that want to pay their loan
and those that don't. Some people are here trying to find a way
out of their responsibilities and some people are trying to find a way
to deal with their responsibilities while still trying to
have a life. |
I think that State-Side's decision demonstrates that there actually at least
3 "types" of people on this board. I will not go into describing
this 3rd category, I think it is pretty obvious...
Edited by Agent007
|
|
1stepforward2bk
Groupie
Joined: 17/November/2003
Location: Canada
Points: 128
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21/May/2004 at 6:47am |
Wanting to pay doesn't always mean you are in the position to. Realizing there is an obligation is how people differ.
|
|
MegaPo
Senior Member
Joined: 24/June/2002
Location: Canada
Points: 136
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21/May/2004 at 6:50am |
Yes, I'm sure Kevmetric knew he was being rude when he wrote, "At the risk of sounding rude..."
But let's not be too harsh on Kevmetric, either. He did not say, "Get your head examined, you friggin' lunatic!" He said, "...you needed to see a psychologist." Now, everybody get ready to roast me--I agree with Kevmetric's advice. Perhaps I wouldn't say that State-Side needs to see a psychologist; instead, State-Side would probably find tremendous relief (and greater happiness) after some sessions with a therapist. Remember, I'm not saying that State-Side is on her way toward wearing tin-foil hats or shooting into a crowd from a bell tower. I'm saying that State-Side in the words of her husband, “is prone to anxiety and worst-case thinking.”
As adults (early 30s, State-Side?), anxiety and worst-case thinking develop for reasons related to issues and struggles. Questions haunt us: "Am I doing 'the right thing'?" "Could I ever possibly be a parent, when I'm like this??" "What did I do wrong? How did I miss my chance in life?" These are painful issues. Some people pack 'em down tight inside themselves, and then pour a lot of booze on top. Other people talk to therapists, clergy, friends... Other people join community choirs or volunteer with charities. All of these activities (even drinking!) helps to pass the time, and all (except drinking) can bring a lot of comfort and relaxation into your life.
No, State-Side, you don't need a psychologist (or clergy, or friend, or other therapist). And no, State-Side, giving your money to a ministry of the federal government will not ease your nagging fears. You sound like a good person, State-Side, and just like the Oracle said to Neo, "I hate giving good people bad news."
The laws that Johnny (et al) used to dismiss this debt are there for very good reasons. I understand why you are not comfortable -- perhaps you feel like you slipped yourself through a "loophole." In fact, you acted within the law. You actions have been honourable, and you don't need to prove to anybody (except yourself, of course) that you are a good person.
Look at it this way: Money is control. Now that you have your money (and it is your money), you have a little more control over your life. Save for retirement. Spend a little on improving yourself. (You're a good person, and you feel driven to be an ever better person! Therapy can help, and add comfort, too.) And if you choose not to give yourself all of this money, then give it to whomever you want it to go to: homeless shelters, United Way, and so on. Give those agencies some money and some of your time and attention. Each day will start and end more softly for you. If you feel inside how I suspect you feel, then you know exactly what I mean by that, don't you?
You are a good person, and you deserve no feelings of guilt. Do not worry one whit about HRDC. They have plenty of money, and when they need more, they know exactly where to go to get it!!
Best Wishes,
--Sean
|
|
6273kat
Senior Member
Joined: 28/April/2004
Location: Canada
Points: 100
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21/May/2004 at 7:35am |
MegaPo
How very generous it was for you to analyze State-Sides life, feelings and decisions for her. I would imagine she has already done that herself however, seeing that she is an anxious thirty year old, who is a good person with many more places to put her money than where it was owed.
Probably another place she could go to find support for her decisions could be here on this website.
Karla
|
|
SolveStudentDebt
Moderator Group
Joined: 05/November/2003
Location: Canada
Points: 5996
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21/May/2004 at 7:43am |
Your Quote:
"But let's not be too harsh on Kevmetric, either. He did not say, "Get your head examined, you friggin' lunatic!" He said, "...you needed to see a psychologist." Now, everybody get ready to roast me--I agree with Kevmetric's advice. Perhaps I wouldn't say that State-Side needs to see a psychologist; instead, State-Side would probably find tremendous relief (and greater happiness) after some sessions with a therapist. Remember, I'm not saying that State-Side is on her way toward wearing tin-foil hats or shooting into a crowd from a bell tower. I'm saying that State-Side in the words of her husband, “is prone to anxiety and worst-case thinking.”
People who are prone to experience anxiety and negative thinking are those who have difficulty coping with and harnessing stress for whichever reasons. The one thing I would like to point out is that many who are in debt crisis fall into this psychological pothole. The fact that the system is relentless towards those in student debt crisis doesn't help matters much either. For many, financial crisis is the trigger (stressor) but it is the individual's "reaction" to the situation that is actully THE stress. Coping, managing, harnessing, postive thinking, reinforcement .. they are the keys to overcoming.
So, State-Side is not experiencing anxiety or negative thoughts about this any longer. It didn't require the services of a psychotherapist to solve her problem. It required her taking the first step (without looking at the staircase).
"Be not afraid of moving forward. Be afraid of standing still."
- Sigmund Freud
Johnny
|
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
|
|
MegaPo
Senior Member
Joined: 24/June/2002
Location: Canada
Points: 136
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21/May/2004 at 11:08am |
<sigh>
To those who flippantly replied:
People, please... All I ask is a little courtesy -- a little freedom to express my thoughts, even when they don't agree with your intuitions.
I don't want to argue or fight or bicker. I offered a response to State-Side's message, based on what I read in her words. You might not agree with my interpretation, but so what? Let State-Side form her own opinions. Don't jump down my throat, unless perhaps if I was rude of insulting. My perspective and my advice were caring and sincere. If you don't like it, ignore it.
In my opinion, for what it's worth, I believe that State-Side's message was not about money: it's about feelings. She was writing about her feelings that she took something, about her subconscious, about her self-esteem, and her husband's feelings about her feelings. (Those were her words.) Hey, if you folks want to write about money, then write about money. In my opinion, State-Side was talking about her feelings, so I wanted to write about feelings.
To State-Side, personally:
Please do not let their flippant criticism and sarcasm deter you from thinking about your situation. It is clear that you have put a lot of care and a lot of thought into your choices. I read your message carefully, and it seemed that your feelings are the truly important issue for you, not the money.
And all I said was:
- You don't need a therapist...
- But, Don't be hesitant to see a therapist if you want to talk. Your words reveal a lot of thought, and you can learn a lot about yourself and how to be happier.
- Giving your money to HRDC might not be "the thing" that makes your bad feelings go away. Don't let financial experts convince you that they solved your problem, especially when you're not sure that they know what your problem is!
- Consider using the extra money to help those you care about and trust, including: YOU, your family, homeless shelters, etc.
- Most important, it's not your money that you want to give away; it is your time and you attention. Share your time with kids, with charities, or with whoever else makes you feel good about what you do.
In short, I am asking you to consider the viewpoint I presented. If you found the feelings in my last message to be familiar to you, then you might wish to continue thinking (as you have). Don't assume that writing cheques to the government will make you happier in 2005.
On the other hand, my last message might have been totally off-base. I can't tell -- only you know you!
But do be assured that I offered my thoughts out of kindness, out of concern, and out of caring. I'm not trying to sell you services or any false promises of happiness-guaranteed cure-all solutions. My perspective is from my heart, not my pocketbook.
--Sean (ducking for the next round of assault) "I gotta stop agreeing with the guy who just got reamed!!!"
|
|
administrator
Admin Group
Joined: 25/January/2003
Points: 1798
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21/May/2004 at 12:54pm |
Just a reminder that the membership of this site involves respect and consideration of all other members.
This forum is for recommending advocates so the comments should not even be posted here. Perhaps it can be moved to another area...
I would suggest that it is easy to take someones words and twist them around. The english language is not very precise... Be careful in how you word things.
That being said, I think Kevmetric has a point but it was expressed in a tone that makes it unreceptive. Megapo accurately pointed out some things too. I can see all points of view.
Lets all remember to listen, then wait a day before responding ok?
Mark
"Anyone can slay a dragon, but it takes a true hero to wake up in the morning and love the world all over again"
|
|
SolveStudentDebt
Moderator Group
Joined: 05/November/2003
Location: Canada
Points: 5996
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21/May/2004 at 1:28pm |
Megapo, I have no reason to jump on what you say. Sometimes what you do say is sometimes read the wrong way. We all have our opinions and the beautiful thing is that we are all free to express them.
Your quote:
"Giving your money to HRDC might not be "the thing" that makes your bad feelings go away. Don't let financial experts convince you that they solved your problem, especially when you're not sure that they know what your problem is!"
This is so true. Paying a debt will not make bad feelings go away because there may be other underlying circumstances. Financial experts (if you are referring to me) have not convinced this person of anything. All I did was clear a pathway for the individual. Sometimes, that is what a person needs given the circumstances.
I sure hope you all have a wonderful long weekend.
|
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
|
|
foolosopherking
Newbie
Joined: 27/May/2004
Points: 4
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 30/May/2004 at 12:40am |
Wow!
After reading all the above, my head is still spinning a bit...
Personally, I don't think anybody who has written anything here is wrong. What we do that makes us feel good about the decisions we make is entirely subjective, is it not? I owe plenty of money - to student loans, child support, etc - and some make me feel sick to my stomach and miserable while others I couldn't care less about.
To clarify, I feel morally responsible for the child support and my personal (consolidation) loan. I brought three beautiful kids into the world, and if the welfare system had to compensate for my financial and employment problems, then I feel responsible to pay that money back. They took care of my kids when I couldn't.
I owe $20,000 or so in student loans, and I benefited from that money. However, I believe (1) the government takes huge amounts of money from hard-working Canadians, and spend a lot of it in questionable ways, and (2) many educational institutions charge way too much for the privilege of attending. I'm speaking more about private institutions, since it is with the private institutions that I've had the majority of my experience. If I could negotiate to pay $10,000 instead or $20,000, I wouldn't hesitate. Why? Because when I look back on those experiences as a student, I'd say that the benefit I received from that education was worth $10,000. I would be willing to pay that.
So what am I saying? Well, in the words of Katsumoto ("The Last Samurai"), it is only when we're "ashamed of what we have done" that we have nightmares about it. And none of us can determine what constitutes a nightmare for someone else. Despite how I feel about my student loans, I applaud State_Side in her decision, and hope that nobody here will try to tell her what she should/shouldn't do based on their own subjective perspective.
foolosopherking
|
|
fedup
Newbie
Joined: 09/July/2004
Points: 10
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 12/July/2004 at 7:05am |
I agree with foolosopherking!
Paying for one's education is reasonable but is a morgage sized debt reasonable? I don't believe so. My neighbour is a bus driver and while he makes a little bit less than me he has absolutely no student debt and has much more saved into his pension.
I have over $60, 000 in debt and while i needed an education to get my current position i do not believe this level of debt is reasonable. Twenty thousand okay (still high but...). Hell i pay almost half my income in taxes--which is fine because these taxes benefit the system (that is unless money is squandered which we know never happens. ) I thought that going to school benefited everyone in the long run! Education was not a priviledge for me. Have we not been told all along that to get ahead in this world you need an education? Educated citizens benefit all Canadians.
|
fedup
|
|
danny
Senior Member
Joined: 12/January/2004
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 176
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 24/August/2004 at 3:33pm |
since i graduated 5 years ago i dont even have a job or income yet im
suppose to pay 30k-- for the first 4 years i had a criminal record and
went on welfare making 5k because no one would hire me--not even
mcdonalds this last year i made 1k only and basically live in shelters
and spend alot of time in the library just to keep warm or wait for
emergency shelter to take me in.
if i had a job like fedup i would pay--obviously your making ok money
because your in the 40 % tax bracket --i assume you make 40k plus a
year
i really dont see the problems your having fedup ??
|
Johnny save me!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|