This website is a testimony to the problems Canadian Student Loan borrowers experienced from approximately 1996 to 2008 and until their loans were paid off.

The privatization of the Student Loans system by the Chretien and Martin Liberal governments broke the system and defaulted thousands of borrowers who were trying to pay their loans. There were even stories of suicide due to the harassment of borrowers.

Read the report that I prepared back in 2007 here. Canada Student Loans-The Need for Change Fortunately the new Conservative government at the time revamped the program and fixed the system for new borrowers, but borrowers under the previous program were left with ruined credit and continued harassment from debt collectors.

I call on the Canadian Government to apologize to the borrowers affected by this fiasco and make amends.

Unfortunately the Liberal government is again clobbering the Education system with their upcoming changes to International Student Visas. Yes, there's a problem, but instead of a well thought out plan, they have pulled the emergency brake on the train causing a derailment. This has introduced unprecedented instability for both private and public education institutions who serve both international and local students.

Universities can't plan. I've heard of courses being cut because the government has no process in place for universities to send the newly required acceptance letters to the government.

This means that students who have been accepted can not attend courses that start in the summer 2024 semester. With cut sections, current Canadian students will have trouble getting courses, and may have to switch to part-time which changes their enrollment status and might trigger repayment of their loans or ineligibility for funding. I've seen this before. It wreaks havoc on the student loan borrowers.

Again, the Liberal government has messed up the education environment. Will the new system needed in a rush for the acceptance letters be the new Arrivecan scandal?

I call on the government to implement a slower phased in approach and delay the requirement of the acceptance letters until a process is in place to submit these letters.


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - My Student Loan Experience
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


Forum LockedMy Student Loan Experience

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
wakeupscreaming View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 06/March/2005
Location: Canada
Points: 2
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wakeupscreaming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: My Student Loan Experience
    Posted: 06/March/2005 at 2:39am

I attended college for about 3 years in the early 90's. Canada was coming out of a recession, and the city I was living in was in a bust cycle -- an UN-boom. I found low-paying crap jobs and intermittent unemployment waiting for me when I decided to enter the workforce.

The milieu of the day was quite depressing. I remember my friend being asked at a FutureShop why he didn't have a degree to be a "sales associate" - a.k.a. cashier. And I remember a secratary freaking out when I went to apply at a company, who said she had looked 7 months for her job and they certainly "were NOT looking", as she emphasized it. Oh, those were the days. Canada really knows how to take care of it's young, don't it?

I had phoned the bank perhaps a couple weeks after the "6 month interest-free" period, and the bank said they had sent my relatively small loan of $8k back to Canada Student Loans as a default. And so my journey into the dark world of collections began.

The harassing calls started at work. The job I had at the time paid a piddly $7.5 an hour and took me 1 hour and 10 minutes just to get there via transit. Alberta's minimum wage was $5 at the time. I guess it kept that minimum wage for about what...10 years? With inflation, that meant the minimum wage was indeed being chewed away at the working-poor's buying power. I'm suprised Ralph Klein didn't just get rid of the minimum wage altogether and let employers fully take advantage of and exploit people. But I digress.

Lest be known, I was simply getting by. I was not living in luxury. I did not own a car. I was not going to bars buying everyone rounds of drinks. I was skimping by financially, eeking out a meager life in an economically depressed time as a GenX-er, where every menial task job demanded a degree -- and here was this bitch phoning me constantly at work, harassing me to pay the payment in full - egging me on to borrow from friends and family. Calling me names. etc.

It was that moment in my life I had realized something profound; That friends/family of mine that I hadn't previously appreciated, I now fully respected and loved! Because it took this pure evil bitch that was ruthless to prove that assholes really do exist!. And they only wanted one thing -- to harass, and bully for money.

To make out a really long story short, it went from her, to another collection agent with another fake name, then to another collection agent, and another and another. And so on and on. Months went by. Years went by. I guess each agent knew they couldn't get blood out of a stone. If I was swimming in money, I would have been making payments. If I had been making the big bucks, I would have paid the full loan off in a month or two. Perhaps this is something Student Loans and Canadian elites should understand -- students that get good steady fulltime and STABLE jobs will pay off their f*cking loans when they get out of college or university. It's that simple. When they get out of school, and are greeted by the labour market with minimum-wage part-time sh*t jobs -- expect defaults! What part of that don't they understand?

I considered bankruptcy at one point, but then decided not to. Keep in mind, this was the early nineties, when I could have erased it through that procedure. I did learn though, from this bankruptcy counsellor that collection agents can simply tap a couple of keys on their computers and see what you have in your bank accounts. Oh, how I love our Orwellian world we've become. Canada rocks! Not.

Collection agents are everyday normal simple people. They are like bounty hunters. They get paid a commission for any money they bring back. I'm not sure how much it is, but I made a habit to ASK them the percentage they get -- which always resulted in silence or a quick change of subject on their part. That was too funny.

Another time, another harassing collection agent phoned, and I began to ask her if she was phoning about some pure-bred puppies I had for sale. I proceeded to tell her that all the puppies had a pleasant disposition and had their full shots. It was just too hilarious.

Another noteable experience I had with a collection agent:
One coked-out collection agent screamed into the phone "RUN! ***** RUN! KEEP RUNNING!!@#". The whole collection experience revolved around lot's of phone ringing at work. Phone hang-ups and slams. Yelling. Screaming. When I got the calls in the early morning hours, I would have to pull the cord out of the wall, etc. I had one agent even phone an employer of mine years after. Collection agents showed me that there is indeed a darkside to humanity. And Canada is harbouring and employing these cretins.

Anyways. It's good that I eventually got over the "scariness" of collection agents. They are just people with crappy jobs themselves, who have to collect money to get paid a commission. That's all they are. Nothing more.

Anyways, years went passed, and Canada finally changed the Student Loans law that automatically wiped it out after filing bankruptcy. And I was still stuck with this loan, with acruing interest. My window of opportunity was gone.

Years later, perhaps almost 8 years after I left college, I finally made one half payment DIRECTLY to the,...umh..was it the "Auditor General"? Whoever it was, it was NOT the collection agency. Do not send any payments to the collection agency whatsoever. Make sure they do not collect one red cent for harassing you. It wasn't the collection agents who motivated me into making a payment anyways -- it was Revenue Canada, who was threatening they would withhold any tax refunds I may have coming to me. Ahh... isn't Canada such a lovely country? Can't you feel the love?

Simply put, if people had the f***ing money, I think they'd pay off their f***ing loans. Pure and simple. It's just Canada's elites now want the young to be indebted up to their eyeballs so they are forced to be "industrious" and chained to the debt. It results in higher education being reserved only for the rich and trust-fund babies. It's literally a class issue. And it's getting worse over time.

Anyways, I got a call months, years later. And this person didn't seem like a typical "agent". She was polite, and I later learned she was calling from a law office. They were going in for the kill. And I don't know the legalese term, but it would be an official notice to me by someone in person who would come to my door and serve me lawsuit papers of some sort. Basically, it was the last draw. Sorry, I can't remember the word for it. But it was "serious". Well, thankfully, all these people are human, and they goofed and a guy was sent to my mom's place in Alberta -- the wrong location. I now live in another province altogether and hadn't lived in Alberta for years. I don't know how they goofed, but my mom quickly told me what happened, and I made arrangements to make the last final chunk. The cheque was mailed diligently. Again, NOT to the law office or any collection agency, but to the "Auditor General" or whatever the hell that is. That way it insures none of these parasites get anything and it goes directly to the Canada Student Loans.

It's a good thing this law office goofed. The interest on my payments up to that point were tax-deductible. In other words, the tax that had been acruing all that time, I used on my tax as an additional deduction, and you get to deduct it from your yearly salary -- resulting in a larger tax refund. If I had been served those papers and that official notice, I would NOT have been able to deduct it as a tax deduction.

Ultimately, I paid my loan off, almost 8 years later, and used the wracked-up interest to my benefit. For the record, I would have preferred not to have payed it back. Canada and it's business elites certainly didn't give me any opportunities.

Simply put, what is the magic difference between grade 12 and your first year of college? Why is the former completely paid for by the public and the second one requires you cough up money for it? And the trend is that students have to cough up more and more of it themselves. Why not start charging highschool students to cough up money for their education? Why stop there -- force elementary boys and girls to pay for their education. Then collection agents can phone up 10 year olds and threaten them with.

Canada simply wants it's students shackled like little industrious slaves. Unless you have plans on emigrating to some far off island, you will not escape. Canada is a business class country. And it's adopting "user-pay" schemes for almost everything by ridding our society of old vistages of publicly-funded services -- like education. All in the name of stratifying and protecting elites interests. Simply put, we're no longer 1 big happy family. We're a nation of strangers, newcomers and capitalists that just want to make a buck. They could careless to "make friends". Communities are dead. That is why we're becoming more of a ruthless country.

I'm suprised with the internet, universities still haven't adopted a system where you can hear and see lectures on your computer laptop. All that would require is you buy the $100 book, and you'd be set. And you wouldn't need to live near college campuses that would charge higher amounts for rent, etc. Of course, universities would have a hard time rationalizing their huge tuition costs. Simply put, acquiring knowledge shouldn't cost so much.

I leave with my point i've hit home 3 million times. If young people are given good steady fulltime STABLE jobs they will be able to make their payments on their loans. Of course, after a good chuckle, you and I both know young people aren't given the good jobs.

Hence, the soap opera continues...

Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
kwelmm View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 06/November/2004
Location: Canada
Points: 702
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kwelmm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/March/2005 at 3:57am

I think you are right on the mark there wakeupscreaming.  Long....but right on!!!

 

Back to Top
nago View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 01/December/2004
Location: Canada
Points: 212
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/March/2005 at 7:34pm
hey, im not young,

I would have loved just to get a job in my field or a professional job

oh well, was it my criminal record or did unviersity scam me




http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2sn9.jpg
Back to Top
mvtofino View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 06/April/2005
Location: Canada
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mvtofino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/April/2005 at 1:23am

Hey Wakeup !

It saddens me to feel the utter hopelessness and frustration you obviously endured throughout the early stage of your time in the real world.

I also feel that bitterness clouded much of what you said, and I would like to think that you'll mellow somewhat over time.

There are a couple of points that I wish to comment upon, and trust you will understand that you are representing not only your own point of view but your contemporaries as well when you attempt to categorize the rest of us into one of your predefined groups.

I am curious about the origin of your comments regarding education funding.  As I understand it, you obtained post-secondary education of an undisclosed level, and after a few disappointments and unpleasant experiences with lowlife collectors, you managed to repay your student loan and move on.

Yours is the closest example to the typical textbook standard I found yet on this website.  With some good fortune and hard work on your part, you may be well down the road towards realizing your objectives whatever they may be.

I am troubled by your apparent state of mind.  You seem pissed about having survived a process that so many others were unable to do.  Have you tried to help anyone else through the muck and vomit by developing your dormant leadership skills ?  I didn't think so.  But maybe you should think more about the contributions you could make rather than complaining about what you didn't receive.

Who do you think should pay for education in our enlightened society ?  The federal government perhaps, or the province, or how about the community you live in ?  On second thought, why not charge only adult males between the ages of 30 and 35 years who are gainfully employed and who drive cars to work instead of rapid transit.

Well, reality is no mystery, and you might have already figured it out.  I remind you of the comparative example you used to differentiate Grade 12 and the first year of College or University.  You went on to express your observation that Grade 12 was basically free to the student, whereas first year cost the student some money.  So far I fail to see the problem.

Would you be that surprised to learn that the person who picks up the tab for education in this country, regardless of what level you care to inspect, is the same person who picks up the tab for every other benefit, service or opportunity that is so generously provided to Canadians.  That sad and miserable downtrodden soul goes by the name of Mr. Average Taxpayer, if you would grant me some latitude on my failure to respect the gender issue.

Won't you be happy to learn that about the time you have paid off your student loan, the people of Canada will expect you willingly pick up your share of the collective costs of running this democratic confederation of malcontents, which happens to include a whole lot of education cost that is simply cast off into that great cess pool of excess spending that runs rampant through our system.

Sooner or later we all come around to the realization that there is no free cheeze.  Something for nothing doesn't exist. Once that is understood, a remarkable thing begins to take shape, namely an attitude adjustment where one finally gets the message that nobody is to blame, and we are each responsible to each other to make our world the best it can possibly be.

That's when a man can walk with his head high;  he has finally done something he can be proud of; something that didn't have his personal best interest as the underlying incentive.  Hard to imagine ?  Not really.  The truly impressive part is how quickly the transformation can complete.  Consider going to bed tonight in your present form as the world's leading authority on being an asshole, and awaking a few hours later to discover the a self-respecting man your mother always hoped you'd become.

It happens that way.  Trust me.

Incidentally, for what it's worth, I wouldn't cherish the idea of having to make a fresh start in today's economy as those of your generation must do.  My father shook his head at the obstacles I faced when starting out, and I can't see much relief in sight.

It sure is easy to find fault in your statements when there are more brand new BMW M5s cluttering up high school parking lots than what you can find in the surrounding community's driveways at suppertime.

So what has changed ?  My father earned enough to raise three boys in comfort and security, and his wife attended to motherly issues.  We were not wealthy, but I'd have to say we lived in the top 15% if measured by a father's gross income.

The best financial year I ever experienced was $400,000 gross in 1994.  No windfalls or one-off profit taking in that amount.  Every dollar was billed out either at my hourly rate or as a performance bonus.

My Dad's best year was roughly one-tenth of that,  My point ?  Worry not about the money - focus instead on delivering more to your client than they bargained for or expected.  Believe that, and the rest takes care of itself.

And don't forget to count your blessings.  Find as many things to be thankful for as you possibly can.

I would also ask that you refrain from making any more derogatory statements about Canada. Its a pretty sh*tty place to eek out an existence until you find yourself anywhere else on this planet with the same thing in mind.

Am I wrong about that ?  Or do you have even the slightest idea what I am talking about ?  Regardless of your answer, I wish you every success in your life, and that you willingly put back more than you take out.  That's the only way to secure our children's future.

Sincerely,

mvtofino

Vancouver, Canada

Back to Top
spartacus View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 22/July/2005
Points: 6
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spartacus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/July/2005 at 7:38am
You made $400,000 in one year?  That's pretty impressive.  What do you do for a living?  Are you hiring because i could really do with $400,000.  You know, just a little bit of spending money so i could take some time off from paying of my loans and such.  Spend it with the wife and kids, read a newspaper feeling relaxed, enjoy the sunshine, stuff like that.


Back to Top
Blue_Thunder View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 10/December/2004
Location: Canada
Points: 76
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blue_Thunder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/July/2005 at 10:32am

WAKEUPSCREAMING ..... I know where you're coming from.

To make a long story short, I graduated from high school in 1991 and immediately that September I enrolled in university. I graduated in 1997 from Memorial University of Newfoundland with a general Bachelor of Science degree. The powers that be, despite good grades, would not allow me to go and do an Honours Degree which is prerequisite for Grad School. When that happened, I jumped on the Information Technology bandwagon and graduated from a private college with a 2-year IT diploma in 1999.

I got shafted on my work-term placement because I was never informed that was ineligible for the IT positions that were coming up. The work-term was with the Newfoundland Public Service Commission with the Public Libraries Board. I was never told at all about the hiring procedure and got told half ways through my work-term that I was not eligible to apply for INTERNAL competitions. The only way I could get the position of Computer Support Specialist (which was what my work-term duties were) was if the position became a Public Competition. The work-term placements are supposed to be an opportunity to get your foot in the door and not to give some cheap-ass government department or agency to get free labour out of you.

Despite the work-term placement, I was unable to get an interview with any Public Competition I applied for because I did not have enough qualifications and/or experience. From that point onwards, the greatest of all achilles heels reared it's ugly head: The No Experience Syndrome.

I took full advantage of Interest Relief for my Canada and Newfoundland Student Loans until they were exhausted by trying to get a good paying job as soon as I possibly could. Despite my best efforts and hundreds of jobs applied for pertaining to my education from coast to coast, all I kept getting were rejection letters saying I don't have enough experience and/or qualifications/certifications.

In an effort to try to grab life by the horns, I attempted to move to Toronto in 2001 to try to change my fortunes. I could have moved to Alberta, but I have no family or friends there but I had family in Toronto. First, the No Experience Syndrome followed me up there and Second, I was not going to work for $9.00 an hour where everything is so darn expensive. After a couple of months in Toronto, I was back in Newfoundland again and that summer I started a job that lasted 14 months until I got doctor's orders to resign from it. It was a telemarketing job and it is the only bit of work on my resume that is actually longer than 4 months. The other jobs I ever had were during the summers I had been in school, etc.

In 2001, the Newfoundland Student Loans went to collections as I could not afford to make the requested payments and in 2004 the Canada Student Loans were split up and went to two different agencies. Recently, I had my set-off appealed successfully and was able to get my GST/HST credits back.

The last 6 years since completing my last course successfully, I have had only two jobs: telemarketer and most recently a dishwasher. What is the common denominator here? Paltry paying jobs with high rates of turnover. I am not enthused by the fact that the only jobs I have been able to get are of this nature. Up to this present day, I have not been able to get any jobs whether it is minimum wage or career high paying type jobs that are not considered to have high turnover.

Today I sit here now drawing EI from this dishwasher job and I am frantically trying to get work so I can get financially independent and in the meantime I get badgered by ***holes from collection agencies trying to play one trick in the book after another. If I had the money from a good job, I would be wiping these loans out as fast as I possibly can.

In a nutshell, people like me can't get good jobs because they all demand years of work experience. That's one problem that Generation X people are routinely dealing with: the No Experience Syndrome. The mentality of employers, who are most likely baby boomers, is a very negative one. Combine the NES with employers downsizing and all the other nasty effects created by both of the Free Trade Agreements, and it has became a mix for disaster.

Also, the kids who do get good jobs is either through pure luck that the occupation in question was in high demand or because those from elite families were able to get good jobs because their parents had a lot of connections. That's a painful lesson I have learned a long time ago that if you don't have enough experience, then having connections is paramount and unfortunately I have no such connections. That's generally how it works: people from elite families who have little or no money borrowed out are the ones who do have the right circumstances to get the good job.

The goal of the student aid system was supposed to bridge the gap allowing more than the kids of the social elites to be able to get a post-secondary education. But unfortunately the gap has grown larger because those that do get good jobs often have their salaries (versus lower paying jobs) off-set by having to spend so much money paying back the loans. What does someone have to gain? It is still a system that caters to the elite of society and those that are stuck paying these loans regardless of salary are relegated to either living in poverty or making a rich income, but being forced to live a very modest living as we work not only to live but to work for the government.

If I had my time back, I would have worked first after high school and saved up my money and then went to school and perhaps got funding through HRSDC Sponsorship by being EI Eligible. Borrowing like I did to get my credentials is the biggest mistake I ever made and the system is so poorly executed and so ruthless will not allow me to have a fair chance at erasing that mistake.

 

The greater access to higher education, as a result of student loans, has flooded the job market. Therefore, supply exceeds demand. Thus our credentials are not as valuable as, say, 30 years ago.
Back to Top
mvtofino View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 06/April/2005
Location: Canada
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mvtofino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/July/2005 at 9:50am

Spartacus;

Yes, $400,000 in one year, and yes it was impressive.  But what did it cost ?  More than I bargained for.  In addition to the $260,000 in direct overhead costs, Revenue Canada (Canada Revenue Agency today) got about $50,000 or so, lawyers got $10,000 for reviewing the tax shelter scam that got another $25,000 or so.  Interest on my principle residence, fixed at a comfy 17% per annum, equalled about $35,000 if I recall accurately, and the balance of $20,000 divided by 12 I spent foolishly - you know, two adults and one teenager don't need anything more than $1,500 per month to eat, drink and be merry with !

I would love to have a holiday or read a newspaper.

Make no mistake about it - there is no free cheeze.  We and those who came before us have built a monster that feeds upon the souls of our children, and I doubt anyone is getting prepared to reverse the process.

Don't get upset about having to pay for your education;  it is towards the early end of your career at a time when you have lots of time left to accumulate wealth.

That said, there is no excuse for bad administration on the part of lenders or those who do the collecting.  No excuse whatsoever !  A small calculation error can be tolerated - once in a lifetime perhaps - but many of the stories you read in this forum are truly unbelievable.

And a good part of many of those are unbelievable, because they are either exaggerations, fabrications or sob stories with much detail omitted to distort the truth.

Its easy to become empassioned just reading some of this stuff, so much so that one who has a small legitimate beef expands it both in his or her mind as well as on paper.

At the bottom of the barrel are those who believe the world owes them a living just because they suffered through post secondary school education. Those who cry loudest about repaying their debts are amongst those who partied the hardest also.  Or do I call bullsh*t every time I listen to another college drinking story.......

What I have learned about making money is:  Its not how much you make that counts;  its how much you keep.  My $400,000 career high was impressive - but what did I keep É  Two-thirds of four-fifths of sweet f*ck-all !

I might gross $30,000 this year, if I really try that is,  and I have more in my wallet today than I did at any point in the banner year.  It is amazing what one can do with a little money, but you must first experience having a lot of money and some adversity.  We live in a consumer society where spending money is how we amuse ourselves.

Watch carefully as children open Christmas or bithday gifts;  its a feeding frenzy and a couple hours later its boredom city.  On a larger scale, and at adult levels, go visit a typical landfill site or a few dumpsters.  It is incredible what we throw away.

Yes, according to our twisted economic model, it is more economical to throw away building materials than to re-warehouse them because of high labour costs, but there is more left out of the equation than left in.

Not enough money to get by (my question mark key produces some unknown symbol - so pretend this is a question mark, okay (repeat the previous phrase....) Spend less, lower expectation of tomorrow, reset financial objective at something more reasonable, and then go for it.  Be patient.  Its that or be unhappy.  Your choice.

I`ll abort the rant for now.  Above all, know thyself.  Then do what's right.  Don't complain, because 80% don't care and the rest are happy because misery loves company.

Good luck,

Regards,

JT

Back to Top
Blue_Thunder View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 10/December/2004
Location: Canada
Points: 76
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blue_Thunder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/July/2005 at 10:29am

JT (mvtofino) .....

You made the following remarks in your above posting ....

That said, there is no excuse for bad administration on the part of lenders or those who do the collecting.  No excuse whatsoever !  A small calculation error can be tolerated - once in a lifetime perhaps - but many of the stories you read in this forum are truly unbelievable.

And a good part of many of those are unbelievable, because they are either exaggerations, fabrications or sob stories with much detail omitted to distort the truth.

Its easy to become empassioned just reading some of this stuff, so much so that one who has a small legitimate beef expands it both in his or her mind as well as on paper.

At the bottom of the barrel are those who believe the world owes them a living just because they suffered through post secondary school education. Those who cry loudest about repaying their debts are amongst those who partied the hardest also.  Or do I call bullsh*t every time I listen to another college drinking story.......

You say exagerations and fabrications are all over the place on this website and the CFWG website, but I have only one thing to say to that: my story, along with many others here, has nothing fake about it. Regardless of your opinions, I hope that the Administrator of this web site, Mark O'Meara, reads your input here and has you banished from this web site and Johnny has you banished in the his web site. You speak from the point of view of a cold, heartless bureaucrat or financial institution or collection agency.

I will tell you something else too! I did not treat post-secondary education as one big, gigantic party and nor do most people out there who went to post-secondary schools. Many of us worked very hard and paid our dues. I had no bad habits such as smoking, drugs, gambling, or alcoholism/partying.

You want to find out for yourself who is telling the truth or who is embellishing? Go ask Mark O'Meara and even better yet, ask Johnny! They will tell you for yourself. Sorry JT, but you need a reality check and yet it sounds like you are the one whining and sounding ungrateful for what you are earning but yet so much is taken from your income such as taxes and what not. At least you have a chance to make money.

My message for you is this: if you ain't going to come in here and be supportive of us, but try to derail our morale and make us feel like deadbeat losers, then don't even bother continuing your rant.

The greater access to higher education, as a result of student loans, has flooded the job market. Therefore, supply exceeds demand. Thus our credentials are not as valuable as, say, 30 years ago.
Back to Top
WantOut View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 26/November/2004
Location: Canada
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WantOut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/July/2005 at 4:02pm

MVTOFINO:

I for one have never exaggerated my situation or fabricated any details to garner sympathy on this site.  Neither, I'll hazard to guess, have most of the people on here ..... what would be the POINT?????  Getting sympathy for something that never happened wouldn't make the recipient feel much better, now would it?

On this site we share our stories, help each other out, and try to figure out some way to survive.  If you think we are making this stuff up, then I suggest you move on and find somewhere else to post.  We have all been through some horrible, gut-wrenching, life-altering stress due to the inability to come up with student loan payments determined by a bureaucracy which is unrealistic.

I for one do not appreciate being accused of exaggeration, and neither would the others here.  Your comments are some of the most ridiculous I've heard in a long time ....

In order to discover new lands, one must be willing to lose sight of the shore for a very long time.
Back to Top
wakeupscreaming View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 06/March/2005
Location: Canada
Points: 2
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wakeupscreaming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19/August/2005 at 10:20am
To "mvtofino",

Thanks for your input, but I disagree with some of your points.
"Those who cry loudest about repaying their debts are amongst those who partied the hardest".
You are so wrong there. That generalization is poop on a stick, and you know it. Obviously, you are not a student. You sound like a loan officer or collection agent. Tell me, shouldn't you get a real job someday?

The "there are no freebies in life" schtick. Well, the trend is to roll them back in Canada, at the decision of the elites. You see, in countries like Kuwait, college education and rent is free! Because they just happen to be sitting on a ton of oil, and have a relatively small population, their citizens can enjoy a high-standard of living. And yes, FOR FREE. Their elites, which happens to be a prince, decided for it's citizens that those things will be free. Canada has it's own elites, they aren't princes though. And they have slowly been pulling back the "social contract". Canada has abundant natural resources just like Kuwait, but rent and college education are not free. Why? Because that's what the elites have decided.

Most certainly, the decision to take default loans off the list of things that can be wiped out through bankruptcy sure wasn't decided by a democratic vote of students! Or as you'd put it, drunken partying students. It was select elites who decided what was best for them and their interests. Which was my whole point in my first post. Those elites have decided if you want a post-secondary eduction, oooh-boy, you're gonna pay more and more of it yourself. I'm not going to go into economics and politics and sociology and demographics here. I think I made my point.

BTW, do you work for a collection agency? I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from. You don't sound like a typical student, so why or how did you find this site? And is your role just to cajole and "spy" on posters? If you are, please go away and find yourself a real job.
Back to Top
Blue_Thunder View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 10/December/2004
Location: Canada
Points: 76
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blue_Thunder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19/August/2005 at 12:29pm

It most certainly sounds like this "mvtofino" moron works or used to work for a collection agency. Either that or the person is absolutely clueless about the "real" world around him. Worse yet, he sounds exactly like a Paul Martin or Stephen Harper or pretty much like any Liberal or Conservative MP when he made the following comment "That sad and miserable downtrodden soul goes by the name of Mr. Average Taxpayer" which to me sounds like the same guilt trip that the bureaucrats in Ottawa have been sending across the general public in Canada in their efforts to justify things like the 10-year bankruptcy law as a means to protect the so-called public purse and thus the so-called integrity of the Student Loan programme.

This is the way I see it here ....

1) The government has no business whatsoever trying to lecture students on the integrity of any systems or programmes as they are absolutely guilty of the mismanagement of public funds and of course the one that stands out the most is the Sponsorship Scandal.

2) The government should have done a much better job of providing more funding for post secondary education, offered more grant programmes, etc. without so many bloody catch-22's. Obviously, the people in the western democracies of Europe do not mind seeing their tax dollars being spent on post-secondary education. The government themselves created the mess and inefficient system that the post-secondary education had become. They are solely responsible for the mess but yet they try to pin that blame on us students. The government finds it so much easier to blame others for the mess and save their own asses rather than take full responsibility.

Also, "mytovino", I think you should be absolutely grateful you are making that kind of money and as far as I am concerned the rich and super-rich of this country should be the ones bearing the brunt of paying in taxes into the public purse as you know as well as everyone else here does that people in the lower and middle income tax brackets are the ones paying through the nose in terms of income taxes as a percent of their gross pay.

In conclusion "mytovino" .... you have no business whatsoever being here and ranting like you do. Just like "wakeupscreaming" just said, go out and find a real job and above all else don't come back here again and blatently stick your foot in your own mouth. You are just an idiotic, moronic, and stereotypical person who bases his views out of pure ignorance of the real facts. That, you numbnuts, is completely unacceptable. You have no right to accuse me, wakeupscreaming, wantout, or anyone else here of fabricating and embellishing things. What you do have the right to do is get a reality check and stop being so damn ignorant.

The greater access to higher education, as a result of student loans, has flooded the job market. Therefore, supply exceeds demand. Thus our credentials are not as valuable as, say, 30 years ago.
Back to Top
administrator View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 25/January/2003
Points: 1798
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19/August/2005 at 12:46pm
MVTofino, Spartacus... islander, beachcomber, rinty, java man, all the same person...

Back to Top
polyhymnia61 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/January/2003
Location: Netherlands
Points: 915
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote polyhymnia61 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20/August/2005 at 2:40am

So glad I didn't see this before...I would have wasted so much time rhetorically pummelling someone who doesn't even deserve to be responded to.

Thanks Mark.

Poly
(just for the record, lurkers...a 44-year-old ex-CIBC employee and the recipient of a letter of apology from the same bank for three years of administrative errors that caused my $60000 loan to be thrown into three collection agencies. If we are BSing, then Johnny wouldn't be in business because his services wouldn't be needed.)

Home is where you are allowed to prosper.
Back to Top
SolveStudentDebt View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2003
Location: Canada
Points: 5996
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20/August/2005 at 2:12pm

I'd still be in business.

Student debt crisis intervention and solutions are only a part of what we do.

Johnny

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
Back to Top
polyhymnia61 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/January/2003
Location: Netherlands
Points: 915
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote polyhymnia61 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20/August/2005 at 9:50pm

My apologies, Johnny!

Home is where you are allowed to prosper.
Back to Top
mvtofino View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 06/April/2005
Location: Canada
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mvtofino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16/September/2005 at 10:52pm
Its about time that I reply to the many individuals who were offended by my previous two posts.  While I can certainly understand a number of your collective comments, I believe that many of you have over-reacted to what I said.

I spent a lot of time reading literally hundreds of posts before posting any comments or opinions of my own.  There is no doubt a strong sense of comraderie exists amongst frequent visitors to this site, and that is healthy and to be encouraged.

But just how objective an assessment of my comments have you made ?  Can you truthfully state that each and every story found on this site is totally accurate and without any evidence of exaggeration ?  To suggest anything of the sort would be naive.  But don't misunderstand what I am saying here.  I am not on any witch hunt or fishing expedition in pursuit of the small minority of members or visitors who might find it necessary to exaggerate or embellish their circumstances.  Its a numbers game and requires no bold defense.

A couple have remarked that doing so had no purpose.  Without putting too fine a point on it, many people exaggerate in order to draw more attention or more sympathy to themselves or their plight than otherwise would be the case.  That's the typical reason that applies to every sub-group of humans on the planet.

But before you fire off another salvo of hatred in my direction, why not calm down for a moment and realize we are talking about basic human nature here, and nothing more.

I didn't define human nature or invent things like the bell curve or for that matter, want to engage in mindless conversation.  What I did do was read a particular story and tell the writer what I thought about it.  Too bad he failed to address my points, but blind emotionalism has a tendency to distort reality, so what's new ?

It is unfortunate that so many others took offense, and then endeavored to apply my specific comments to the website as a whole.  I am man enough to accept my share of such a misunderstanding, as making global insinuations was not my intent.  My specific comments were directed at the original post, although I acknowledge the fact that I suggested there were other stories that I found much the same. I could have been a little more cognizant of how such a comment might be interpreted, and been more sensitive to the website as a whole.

I apologize for that, and will pay more attention in the future.

That said, I stand by every word of the two posts in question, subject of course, to the aforestated clarification.

In view of the heightened emotional state that a number of you were struggling with at the time you posted your messages, all I can say is take a few deep breaths and count to ten.  What I had to say was not controversial enough to warrant the kind of immature, adolescent and somewhat embarassing remarks that were made.

Is that an indication of how you interact with those who may not agree with you ?  Be my guest, go back and read some of the trash that was posted.

Don't want to ?  Well what about this gem of nonsense that Blue Thunder closes off with :  "......You are just an idiotic, moronic, and stereotypical person who bases his views out of pure ignorance of the real facts. That, you numbnuts, is completely unacceptable. You have no right to accuse me, wakeupscreaming, wantout, or anyone else here of fabricating and embellishing things. What you do have the right to do is get a reality check and stop being so damn ignorant."

Frankly folks, if that's an example of the logic, word skill and use of the language that one might expect from someone who qualified for a student loan in this country, then we're all doomed.

As for those who suggested I was some other character and rattled off a few names that might be familiar on the site, I regret to advise this is not the case at all.  As a matter of fact, if any of you are interested in just how merciless and uncaring the financial community truly is, thge details of my story would make you feel pretty damned good in comparison.

At this point, I am sure I will have tested the upper limits of your believability, and no doubt would have to be subjected to another round or two of abuse.  I mean it would be fairly easy for me to make such allegations in a thinly veiled attempt to garner sympathy, or at the very least, soften the impact of your remarks.

But I'll leave that as an open challenge for now, and hopefully I won't have to duke it out with someone who wants to out-brag me about his or her misery.  But make no mistake about it - some of you have made some strong statements, and even after discounting the emotional factor, are a little out of line or excessive given the circumstances.

Incidentally, should anyone wish to accept such a challenge, you should be aware of the fact that long before this little tempest in a teapot reared its ugly little head, the details of my horror story had already been shared with Johnny of CFWG.  I would prefer he not be annoyed with any further involvement, but if it came down to verifying who I am not, or the severity and magnitude of my financial devastation, I am confident he could substantiate my background without violating confidentiality or ethics.

I hasten to add that I am not, nor have I ever been, a client of CFWG or Johnny.  He was kind enough to listen and provide me a referral.  I applaud his efforts on behave of this website, and hope its membership really appreciates the value of his contributions.

Finally, my delay in responding was due, in part, to having been diagnosed on July 17th with advanced, stage 4 squamous cell carcinoma located in my head and neck, and am about two-thirds of the way through a very aggressive radiation and chemotherapy treatment plan with a 25% chance of survival.

More than anything else, news as shocking as that tends to put a lot of other things into perspective.  I mention this development in my life only to emphasize how serious my posts were and continue to be today.

I have no reason to hide and am prepared to discuss the actual content of my posts in an intelligent fashion, rather than hurl childish insults back and forth.  There's a chance you might even learn something new.

Thank you for your attention, and I look forward to any reply.

JH

Back to Top
kwelmm View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 06/November/2004
Location: Canada
Points: 702
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kwelmm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/September/2005 at 1:54am

JH (and to anyone else...),

I support what you have said.  There is a tendency on this board for members and/or visitors to react (post) out of emotionalism...and, understanding that, we need to show respect by how and what we post as we are in no position to make judgements on anyone's story/situation.  We need to be supportive, positive and understanding with open minds and open hearts.  IF someone feels the need to exaggerate for whatever intended or unintended purposes, more often than not the individual is quite aware of that character in themselves with its underlying issues.  So, we can choose to try to understand the individual (without being condemning or judgemental, etc.) or politely disregard them (meaning in the context of a message board--don't post in response...just read and carry on...as to not draw unnecessary attention to the matter).  Don't take me wrong, I do believe there is a time to step in and take care of business when guidelines are not adhered to....and, frankly, Mark does an excellent job of this (as do we all...with the opportunity to report any violation(s) of this message board).

We can all appreciate the importance of this board and the need to vent and have support of the members and visitors!! It's when support turns into negative interactions that toxicity takes over.  I think we will all agree that toxicity (if that's even a word...LOL) is counter productive...and we get enough of that in what we are dealing with in our student loan management issues!

Here's to self-control, self-introspection, understanding, helping one another, being slow to anger, slow to judge, openness, caring, .....oh, the list could go on and on..LOL.    

We can all rise above!! As I once heard...two men were in jail...both looked out through the bars of the jail cell...one looked down and saw the dirt floor...the other looked up and saw the beauty of the night sky with its glorious starry brilliance.  One was inspired by the beauty that life had to offer, the other, saw no end in sight and remained in misery.  **What you look for in life, and the direction in which you look, you will surely find!!**

Take care, JH!!  Be blessed!

Kat

Back to Top
SolveStudentDebt View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2003
Location: Canada
Points: 5996
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolveStudentDebt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17/September/2005 at 7:38am

Mv,

If there is anything I can do for you, give me a holler.

Johnny

 

 

 

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.07
Copyright ©2001-2024 Web Wiz Ltd.