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blowe46
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Topic: CRA variance on student loan -- 5 year restriction Posted: 12/June/2014 at 3:38pm |
I had two consecutive years where my CRA declared income varied from my OSAP declared income from 2009-2010 and 2010 and 2011. I had my brother doing my OSAP and unfortunately I didn't pay the appropriate attention.
I was recently accepted into a professional program and would like OSAP again since the tuition is so massive. However, I have a restriction on OSAP.
I requested a letter from OSAP explaining the situation and they stated I need to pay the total amount back (provincial). This is what is called as an income variation restriction (IVS)
Firstly, I thought I only had to pay the overpayment. I suppose I could pay back the total provincial amount but the letter states that even that would not remove the restriction.
Has anyone heard of this type of restriction? Would paying it back now remove the restriction? or is that time period fixed in stone?
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 15/June/2014 at 5:10am |
Once your pay it off there is nothing outstanding so restrictions are removed that pertain to outstanding loan or loans in demand status . The next hurdle is as you put it is income, and qualification based on the financial aspect. That is not so much a restriction rather it is a rejection based on their qualification assessment. If you earn an amount that disqualifies you then that is what you are stuck with unfortunately. You can reapply after their prescribed period to seek further financing. If your income is higher than their range for qualification then the chances are that the same result will occur.
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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goatling
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Posted: 10/July/2014 at 4:41pm |
Johnny wrote:
Once your pay it off there is nothing outstanding so restrictions are removed that pertain to outstanding loan or loans in demand status . The next hurdle is as you put it is income, and qualification based on the financial aspect. That is not so much a restriction rather it is a rejection based on their qualification assessment. If you earn an amount that disqualifies you then that is what you are stuck with unfortunately. You can reapply after their prescribed period to seek further financing. If your income is higher than their range for qualification then the chances are that the same result will occur.
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Johnny is there any way for me to PM you? I think you may have some great advice for me.
I am in a similar situation as the above, w respect to an income verification discrepancy claim that showed up out of the blue at my door. What happened was when I applied for OSAP in november, I had no income and stated this as such, with exception of my car and a couple small awards, etc. My family ended up allocating about $60K gross under my name in December without telling me. I am over 25.
The thing is I only applied to OSAP to get bursary funding for disability tutoring, and have provided the ministry with documentation stating this. I paid both loans received back in full, and received a letter in december stating my loans were paid off (even though they sent me another one in January!, which I also paid off immediately). The only reason I applied to OSAP was bc i was told i needed to to get bursary money, but had NO clue I was signing up for loans as well!
I have now been nominated for an Ontario graduate scholarship and may lose it because of this. Is it possible this restriction will stand and I will lose my OGS as a result of a very clear honest mistake and having zero knowledge of this $60k allotment at years end? The OGS is something I have worked all year to achieve, and now i have been nominated for it. I haven't been sleeping bc of this, i feel cheated and it doesnt seem like anyone really cares about helping me rectify this in time.
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 10/July/2014 at 5:35pm |
You can appeal to the minist6er's office for a ministerial review and make your case and the consequences to you clear. You would also have to provide a very comprehensive demonstration of the allocation money with no prior knowledge of it.
The only way to have such restrictions lifted is to appeal them. THe best way to do that is to write ito the minister's office. Sending it to the lower rungs may put you in situation of lock and chase, which is quite frustrating. Being passed from person to persona nd department to department is what happens a lot of the time.
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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goatling
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Posted: 11/July/2014 at 2:06am |
Johnny wrote:
You can appeal to the minist6er's office for a ministerial review and make your case and the consequences to you clear. You would also have to provide a very comprehensive demonstration of the allocation money with no prior knowledge of it.
The only way to have such restrictions lifted is to appeal them. THe best way to do that is to write ito the minister's office. Sending it to the lower rungs may put you in situation of lock and chase, which is quite frustrating. Being passed from person to persona nd department to department is what happens a lot of the time.
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Hi Johnny, thank you for your response. Could you please expand on what you mean by "make your case and the consequences to you clear". Do you mean clearly demonstrate how this restriction will impact my career/academic goals, etc ? Also, how would I provide a comprehensive demonstration of no knowledge of the money allocation? I have an accountant who has stated this in a letter, but is that enough? I have already submitted my documentation to the ministry, however apparently there hasnt even been a file opened for me, and i submitted my first document july 2nd. My biggest concern is the administrative hurdles and departmental lag will be the death of any resolution i require in 30 days (i think i have 30 days to solve this since receiving the OGS email. Writing to the minister is an excellent idea. Would you suggest an email or hand written letter and if so, is this the correct address? 14th Floor, Mowat Block 900 Bay Street Toronto ON M7A 1L2 Its very difficult to know what the correct office/ contact is, esp when there are no direct lines or email addresses. There is a general ministry email but im not sure that would get it to the ministers office. Ifyou have advice on how to get it there, please share this information. Thank you again.
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 11/July/2014 at 5:53am |
That is exactly how you should do it. Remember, you are pitching to a government organization who does not really care too much about truth. They only care about money. So, you have to give them a reason to help you. It is the same attitude and culture as the non-tax group when they say to student loan borrowers "Oh, no there is no such thing as having your loan put out of recovery and yadda". We get that result for people in crisis with extenuating circumstances all the time, as long as all the pieces of a puzzle fit together so the image can be clearly seen.
You never get anywhere with a government group of lower level front line agents whose primary function is answering calls and giving you a response that is read from an antiquated script about motivating people to pay - or else; and overcoming ANY objections you present them with. It's about as productive as selling tarantulas to an arachnophobe.
If you do not get a response then you should send it by courier. They can't say they didn't receive it. Also, your approach is important. If you piss the people in charge off then they will do what the corporate and government bodies to best - pretend not to hear hear you and hide.
I am a professional mediator in these types of communications and negotiations. Believe me, my team is very busy doing this stuff because people are VERY emotional, angry, anxious, and all those things when under this type of pressure and stress.
Lastly, remember, if you are the one who is in their line of fire they are not going to take you as seriously as you want them to. It is their culture, attitude, and training. My expertise is also in the cultural and behavioral analysis aspect of this, as in "how do they think and behave", and "why they think and behave the way they do.". Attitudinal dispositions vary from agent to agent, but one thing is for certain, they are all trained in the arena they work in. They are also trained to think and act a certain way that brings the best results that serve the best interest of the Crown - recover money, ignore the truth, and offer very little empathy and latitude to people. Changing the way they think and behave is not something that can be taught in any online forum because it is very complex human science. I do it professionally for Canadian and U.S. students in social and economic crisis, and also in the business, economic, and human capital development arena in Canada and the U.S.
Keep us posted on any developments. I will help you any way I can. If I get involved though I can;t do that for free, which I hope you understand.
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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blowe46
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Joined: 12/June/2014
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Posted: 17/July/2014 at 7:23pm |
Hi Johnny,
Thank you for your post. I honestly thought this forum had minimal activity and never got an email saying you replied.
In any case, my OSAP letter states that I need to wait a period of FIVE year AND pay back the total amount of my provincial loan to get the restriction removed from my account.
If I have properly discerned your message then paying back the entirety of the provincial loan removes the restriction. Given there's no outstanding balance, there's no restriction to be placed. Does this mean I am still restricted from applying from future loans? I am not worried about annual income since I am a full time student in an intensive professional program (dentistry) and will have zero income.
I suppose I am a little concern about the language of waiting five years and paying back the entirety of the loan. I would prefer eligibility sooner than later.
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goatling
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Posted: 19/July/2014 at 6:21am |
Johnny wrote:
That is exactly how you should do it. Remember, you are pitching to a government organization who does not really care too much about truth. They only care about money. So, you have to give them a reason to help you. It is the same attitude and culture as the non-tax group when they say to student loan borrowers "Oh, no there is no such thing as having your loan put out of recovery and yadda". We get that result for people in crisis with extenuating circumstances all the time, as long as all the pieces of a puzzle fit together so the image can be clearly seen.
You never get anywhere with a government group of lower level front line agents whose primary function is answering calls and giving you a response that is read from an antiquated script about motivating people to pay - or else; and overcoming ANY objections you present them with. It's about as productive as selling tarantulas to an arachnophobe.
If you do not get a response then you should send it by courier. They can't say they didn't receive it. Also, your approach is important. If you piss the people in charge off then they will do what the corporate and government bodies to best - pretend not to hear hear you and hide.
I am a professional mediator in these types of communications and negotiations. Believe me, my team is very busy doing this stuff because people are VERY emotional, angry, anxious, and all those things when under this type of pressure and stress.
Lastly, remember, if you are the one who is in their line of fire they are not going to take you as seriously as you want them to. It is their culture, attitude, and training. My expertise is also in the cultural and behavioral analysis aspect of this, as in "how do they think and behave", and "why they think and behave the way they do.". Attitudinal dispositions vary from agent to agent, but one thing is for certain, they are all trained in the arena they work in. They are also trained to think and act a certain way that brings the best results that serve the best interest of the Crown - recover money, ignore the truth, and offer very little empathy and latitude to people. Changing the way they think and behave is not something that can be taught in any online forum because it is very complex human science. I do it professionally for Canadian and U.S. students in social and economic crisis, and also in the business, economic, and human capital development arena in Canada and the U.S.
Keep us posted on any developments. I will help you any way I can. If I get involved though I can;t do that for free, which I hope you understand.
Hi Johnny, I appreciate your advice. I submitted a letter to the ministers office last Monday via courier, followed up Wednesday and have yet to receive any update or response. Any insight on how ministerial appeals (or just mailed letters) work? Will he ever actually read it and am I able to request a meeting or something? My concern is a) he won't ever read it or hear about it, and b) some decision will come down in Thunder Bay before I have the chance to plea my case with someone that may look at my case as a hard working student with a lot to lose (an important scholarship that reflects my work ethic and scholarly aptitude), rather than someone that mistakingly breached some policy and we don't really care how this will affect your career (my career goal is academia which is why it makes this so much worse).... Any further advice for me.? I've got about 2 weeks left.
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 20/July/2014 at 4:55am |
Did you stress the urgency in your document, and the reason for it being urgent? If they received it then they will look at it. If they don't and get called out for it then they risk being scrutinized at the ministerial level. Being "too busy" is no excuse because the minister's office has an unlimited amount of resources at their disposal to get things done.
Just don't be that one who throws his or hands up in the air and say "screw it" because that is what the upper echelon wants people to do. They don't like to work. THat is why they have Davis and Henderson (National Student Loan Service Center) do all their cat and mouse play. Based on what a lot of people say here in dealing with the privately owned NSLSC you certainly get the cat and mouse treatment.
If you are in the right, or have a serious enough problem that warrants ministerial intervention and remedy, and they do not do that, then you have a story that substantiates tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of others who are victims of the system. Just don't be a victim and do nothing. Stay focused and oil their wheels from time to time until your voice is heard. Believe me, it will be heard if your persevere.
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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goatling
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Posted: 20/July/2014 at 12:39pm |
Johnny wrote:
Did you stress the urgency in your document, and the reason for it being urgent? If they received it then they will look at it. If they don't and get called out for it then they risk being scrutinized at the ministerial level. Being "too busy" is no excuse because the minister's office has an unlimited amount of resources at their disposal to get things done.
Just don't be that one who throws his or hands up in the air and say "screw it" because that is what the upper echelon wants people to do. They don't like to work. THat is why they have Davis and Henderson (National Student Loan Service Center) do all their cat and mouse play. Based on what a lot of people say here in dealing with the privately owned NSLSC you certainly get the cat and mouse treatment.
If you are in the right, or have a serious enough problem that warrants ministerial intervention and remedy, and they do not do that, then you have a story that substantiates tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of others who are victims of the system. Just don't be a victim and do nothing. Stay focused and oil their wheels from time to time until your voice is heard. Believe me, it will be heard if your persevere.
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Hi Johnny, yes I stressed the urgency as much as possible, outlining that it was time sensitive given I only have 30 days to rectify the situation. As an update: I received a letter from the Ministry in Thunder bay after getting home this evening. Basically it is a standard form letter stating that because the income verification for the X amount still happened, my restriction stands but has been reduced from 5 years to 1 year. This letter was sent before I sent my letter to the minister.
Although this is progress, I find this incredibly insulting because they have more or less indirectly admitted (by reviewing the emails and documentation I included) that they agree I did nothing wrong, however are maintaining a 1 year restriction which nonetheless screws me for the OGS which I EARNED. It makes me even more angry to think that they can be so insensitive to do this, because they are aware it does nothing for me. I'm soon applying for PhDs and the OGS I may never have the opportunity to receive again, its very competitive. Not to mention I need these merit based awards to even get IN to a PhD program.
The letter from the ministry was signed by a 'senior manager' but I'm still not giving up. My next step is following up with the Ministers office about receipt of my letter, however I'm not sure how this may play out. Do I have the right to a meeting with the Minister, or a phone call?? Although I am not currently living in toronto, I'm willing to hop on a train if he can make the time to meet me...
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blowe46
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Posted: 20/July/2014 at 3:11pm |
Hey Johnny
Do you have any suggestions for my case?
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 20/July/2014 at 4:58pm |
Blowe46,
The only way to get anywhere with this system is to make an argument and make it stick. You are doing that. If you you did nothing wrong and you are being punished for their mistake then that is your tool here.
If the private group (NSLSC - Edulinx, Resolve, or now Davis and Henderson Income Fund messed u (with proof) and will not correct it then not only do you have a strong argument, you could also have a VERY strong legal case. Remember, they are not the government. They are a private group and if you sue them you are not suing the government, which is very difficult to do. If they have caused you undue hardship and damage then they are legally accountable.
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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