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a123homer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote a123homer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2006 at 5:16am
just like everyone to know government now taking money from income tax to recover money from 18 year old debt.
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Johnny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/March/2006 at 1:45pm

That is what the govenrment does. As long as a debt is owed they can still gaff your income tax rebate. If a debt is statute barred, it does not mean that the debt is no longer owed. You can read up on this in Bill C-28.

Johnny

 

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/March/2006 at 5:41pm
Does this work for out of province situations as well? If it is not a federal
grant how can a provincial government take the monies, and if they result to
federal applications then the provincial debt should also fall back into the
six year statute of limitations of the federal laws.....no?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/March/2006 at 7:18am

Provincial governments piggyback on the feds. For instance, the Ontario goverment has a "Federal set-off program" that seizes income tax rebates from those who owe the ontario government and are in default. The same program applies to the BC government.

Johnny

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/March/2006 at 6:23am
Originally posted by Johnny Johnny wrote:

Provincial governments piggyback on the feds. For instance, the Ontario goverment has a "Federal set-off program" that seizes income tax rebates from those who owe the ontario government and are in default. The same program applies to the BC government.

Johnny



This is happening to a friend of mine.  I've been doing a lot of research to help him out.  The ministry of colleges, etc, is trying to collect on an alleged grant overpayment dating from 1990.  He first found out about it in, I think, 2000 when a collection agency called him.  The agency gave up on him, and now the ministry wants Revenue Canada to collect his tax refunds.  This is continuing even though he got a lawyer to send them a letter that their claim was statute barred under the limitation periods in effect at the time.  They claim that, though crown bound by the Limitations act of 2002, they aren't bound by previous limitation laws (using the Interpretation Act which states they don't have to obey any Act unless it binds the crown) and, in their view, can still collect.

He didn't file a return last year to avoid letting them get his refund while he fixes this mess, but this year Revenue Canada has told him to file.  He's told RC what the situation is, but basically has until the end of April to fix this.

Can the ministry actually say they don't have to obey the previous limitation period because they're not 'crown bound'?

Any help would be appreciated!
Zeus

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/March/2006 at 3:47pm

The ammendment made to the Ontario Limitations Act states that there are no limitations that restrict the govenrment of Ontario fro,m recovering money owed at any time.

Now, based on interpretation, one would assume that the no limitation rule would simply come into force on the day the ammendement was made to come into force. The Ontario government wants everyone to beleive that it applies to debt borrowed and/or defaulted prior to the coming into force of the newly implemented statute.

A class action suit would involving all those who are being proceeded against for debt owed that is actually statute barred would be a good story to follow.

Here are the problems:

1) The government of Ontario is powerful government.

2) People who owe money and are in default have no financial power to hire the appropriate lawyers to enforce that a borrower's right to such benefits are either excercised or put out in the open.

3) Governments are able to do whatever they want, regardless of what laws or statutes are broken. Justice Gomery has issued his report and it says that very statement. The civil servants and members of public office can break the law and not have to worry about being held accountable for it. Lawbreakers working for government are untouchable.

Johnny  

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/March/2006 at 7:00am
Originally posted by Johnny Johnny wrote:

The ammendment made to the Ontario Limitations Act states that there are no limitations that restrict the govenrment of Ontario fro,m recovering money owed at any time.

Now, based on interpretation, one would assume that the no limitation rule would simply come into force on the day the ammendement was made to come into force. The Ontario government wants everyone to beleive that it applies to debt borrowed and/or defaulted prior to the coming into force of the newly implemented statute.

A class action suit would involving all those who are being proceeded against for debt owed that is actually statute barred would be a good story to follow.

Here are the problems:

1) The government of Ontario is powerful government.

2) People who owe money and are in default have no financial power to hire the appropriate lawyers to enforce that a borrower's right to such benefits are either excercised or put out in the open.

3) Governments are able to do whatever they want, regardless of what laws or statutes are broken. Justice Gomery has issued his report and it says that very statement. The civil servants and members of public office can break the law and not have to worry about being held accountable for it. Lawbreakers working for government are untouchable.

Johnny  



So the previous limitation periods DO apply?  Since the Limitation Act of 2002 binds the crown and refers to the former limitation periods (section 24), cannot that be used to bind the crown to the former limitation periods?

Again, any help would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Zeus

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/March/2006 at 11:50am

Zeus,

What I am saying is that the ammendment came into force in 2002. Based on defined and VERY accuate interpretation, debt owed to MTCU (OSAP) that had ocured before the coming into force of this new limitation legislation carries a limitation period as before.

The government of Ontario will argue this with you - and they will do everything within their power to convince you that there are no limitations at all. This is why I wrote items 1-3 to show you what you are up against when you decide to argue  your rights to benefits and freedoms that you would normally be entitled to under a particular statute.

Johnny

www.cfwgroup.ca  

 

 

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/March/2006 at 12:11pm
Johnny,

So, if a letter was sent to the Ministry detailing the limitation issue, can they continue to ignore it?  Or do they have to stop their claim?
What about the tax off-set issue?  Since the Act provides that no action can commence with respect to the claim, does mentioning this in a letter force them to stop trying to take income tax refunds?

Would they pay more attention if such a letter came from a lawyer such as yourself instead of directly?

Thanks for the quick response!
Zeus

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19/March/2006 at 8:46pm

I am not a lawyer. We have many of them as needed, however.

All you need is someone who knows the lending and other related systems from inside out - and their books from cover to cover. Unfortunately, lawyers are not experts in the field of effectively taming and solving student debt problems. Part of The CFW Group is built for this purpose.

The literature that you send has to be written a specific way, and issued to the appropriate sectors. The CFW Group has these tools that are needed to get the job done. However, they are not free.

Sorry for the delay in this repsonse. I do not spend as much time here on this site. If you need more personalized assistance, by all means, visit us at www.cfwgroup.ca - or www.cfwgroup.ca/forum.

Johnny

 

 

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbleafan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/March/2006 at 10:30am

Hi all,

I'm glad to see this post is still going.  My wife was pressured and harrassed by collection agents for a few mths before agreeing to pay off $410.00.  We kept defying them until they threatened her credit rating.  BTW, she's been out of school for approx 14yrs!! 

We recieved an official receipt for this amount from the Ontario Shared Services Bureau for income tax purposes.  I prepare my own tax returns using Taxwiz.  Does any know where I can enter this amount on the tax return...trying to re-coup our loss!

Still waiting for a response...Thanks for your help!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/March/2006 at 8:06pm

I think you would be best served by contacting a chartered accountant in your province.

Unless, of course, there are any chartered accountants here...

Johnny

 

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zeus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/April/2006 at 8:45am
Originally posted by Johnny Johnny wrote:

I am not a lawyer. We have many of them as needed, however.

All you need is someone who knows the lending and other related systems from inside out - and their books from cover to cover. Unfortunately, lawyers are not experts in the field of effectively taming and solving student debt problems. Part of The CFW Group is built for this purpose.

The literature that you send has to be written a specific way, and issued to the appropriate sectors. The CFW Group has these tools that are needed to get the job done. However, they are not free.

Sorry for the delay in this repsonse. I do not spend as much time here on this site. If you need more personalized assistance, by all means, visit us at www.cfwgroup.ca - or www.cfwgroup.ca/forum.

Johnny

 


Can you recommend a specific package or should we just submit an info message and wait for a response?

An update:  my friend is currently speaking with the Ontario office of the Ombudsman to have them intervene.  They are repeating what the Ministry of TCU in that there is no limitation period on student grants.

We've given them the info on the Canada Student Loans Act, the Canada Student Financial Assistance Act, and the Limitations Act R.S.O of 1990, all of which state a six year limitation period on loans, and in the case of the latter, all debt based on lending.

The Ministry of TCU has conceded it is crown bound by the Limitations Act of 2002, but not any previous limitation period.

The Ombudsman agrees the the Transition section of the Limitations Act of 2002 refers to former limitation period, but doesn't think the info we've given them applies.  They just said today that OSAP is provincial and the Acts (CSL and CSFA) are federal.  The rep has given the info to their lawyer, but said it doesn't look good.

I'm really not comfortable with this route since they don't seem to know what they're doing.  They couldn't get copies of the Acts which are freely available on the internet.

We'd really like to go the CFWgroup route, Johnny, if we could.  I'll try posting an inquiry message on that site.

Thanks,
Zeus


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/April/2006 at 1:02pm

Hi Zeus,

Government sectors are known to say, "um, we are nto sure - but the acts reads.. blah blah". It is all int he interpretation as you can see.

I have spoken to many lawyers who know the statutes upside down and inside out - and they all say the same thing. The government will not divulge to a student loan borrower that their debt is statute barred. They are trying to collect it and not educate people how to excericse their rights to information and benefit with respect to any limitaiton issues. There is a lawyer here with me right now as I type this message and a head is nodding.  When you ask the MTCU about limitation issues, they are going to twell you there are none. However, the ammendment came into force in 2002.

If they say that the ammendment applies to ALL loans past, present, and future, thewn that also means that OSAP or grant overpayments that have been barred BEFORE the coming into force of this ammendment would have miraculously survived.

Zeus, call me if you want and I will help you make sense out of all this. If you are in Ontario, there are lawyers we can set you up with.

Johnny

www.cfwgroup.ca

 

 

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mamma uni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/February/2007 at 6:53am
I have a grant overpayment from 88-89, last year they took my income tax and my GST, I got it back because I am unable to work, but I had to make arrangements to pay them $10 per month until it is paid off. I owed $1660.00Cry Now every year I have to reapply for a grant foregivess. They know I will never be able to go back to work and yet I have to fight with themevery single year until this "grant overpayment" is paid off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/February/2007 at 3:06pm
If you are diusabled and unable to work, apply for forgiveness. Demonstrate your disabality.

Johnny
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solvestudentdebt.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mamma uni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/February/2007 at 8:45pm
That's what I do but why do I have to do so every year at income tax time?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/February/2007 at 9:47pm
THis is how they operate. THey only remove the liens temporarily. Also, they would rather you not approach them to remove it and this is part of how they discourage you from doing so.

Johnny
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mamma uni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/February/2007 at 10:50am
I have to file my income tax return, wait till I get notified that my tax refund has been used to pay off my debt, then contact them to have the forgiveness forms mailed to me , so it ends up taking a good 3 months before I even see my refund, WHY, can I not just automaticaly apply at the beginning of each year and not have to wait.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote murcof Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/September/2007 at 12:34pm
Hi Johnny, Can you tell me, if they take a tax return after a debt is barred, is the receipt of that amount towards the barred debt considered an admittance of debt so that the debt is then re-initiated? I believe my debt to be stats barred since it has been over six years since I was discharged from a bankruptsy, which would have been the last amount of money they received as they (student loans) were included in the 'paying out' by my trustees, even though my student loan was only 7 years old at that time. I'm in B.C. Thanks for the clarification.


Originally posted by Johnny Johnny wrote:



Now, as for income tax seizures, the ammendment to the federal act (Bill C-28) stipulates that income tax rebates can still be taken and applied to a barred debt. This is outlined in section 16.1- item 2.

 Johnny

 

 

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