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Never ending depression

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missmja75 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26/July/2004 at 2:45pm
 
I am a 28 year old mother of 2. I have over $30,000.00 in student loans that I am unable to pay, and of course I cannot declare bankruptcy because I left school in 2000 so it has not been 10 years yet.  I have other bills that are in collections as well because I do not make enough money to pay them and a lot of the time, like now, there is no food for me my spouse or my children to eat.  We are going to have our phone cut of in 2 days, we didn't have any heat the whole winter because we couldn't afford oil so we used a small space heater to heat our home as much as it could, but most of the time we were wearing our coats in the house.  My common law husband makes a good amount of money but it's never enough.  When we pay the rent, hydro, car payment, other bills and phone then we rarely have money to buy food, but because no one ever takes into account the amount of money that goes back out we are told we don't qualify for, interest relief, welfare, and any other type of assistance that we try to seek.   My spouse has a student loan debt as well and he's only paying the interest right now when he can. I have been forced to change and unlist my phone number to try to hide from creditors, but the creditors call family memebers and get my number again, or they'll call us at work and threaten us.  I have never been so depressed in all my life. I have been to credit counsellors but they cannot help because the payments are still to large I would have to pay $400 a month and I can't even afford $40 a month, I have spoken to bankruptcy trustees but they cannot help.  I have no options but to continue to try to hide from the people I owe money to, and to pray that social services doesn't come take my children away from me, because if they did I would have no reason left for living, I try my best to make sure that they are looked after at least.  I will go hungry before they ever will.    My children will never have a home that they can call their own.  Right now we live in a house that is full of mould, mice and bugs, and the landlord doesn't do a thing for repairs but I cannot move.  I cannot afford anything better nor can I afford the price of moving.  What did my children do to deserve such a life as this?  I feel as though I am letting them down because of my overwhelming debt.  I work very hard at whatever I do and I fully intended to pay back these student loans but circumstances being as they are, I cannot.  Is there any options left for me?  I can't take the sadness any more.  If anyone has any suggestions please help me.
MissMJ
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masy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote masy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/July/2004 at 11:50am

Collection agencies HAVE to accept whatever you can afford to pay them. There is a section on this site about collection agents which you should read. It provides alot of info about what collection agents can and can't do (like call your work).

Don't dispair over this, really, pay only what you can and there really isn't anything they can do, because if you don't have the money, don't own anything worth taking, have dependents, then there's not much that can be done to you. If it went to court, the judge is not going to tell you to cut your expenses by not paying rent and not buying food for your children. Collection agents make commission on what you pay them so they will threaten you with everything to get that money.

I could go on and on, so I strongly encourage you to read the posts in this website for more info, it's the best resource there is for student loan problems.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CARGO1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/July/2004 at 2:10pm

please talk to johnny at cfw 1-902-440-3679. he will be able to help you get your payments reduced to a managable level,

cargo

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missmja75 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote missmja75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/August/2004 at 6:36pm

Thank you masy and CARGO1 for your responce. My situation still has not changed and the collection companies are still calling, the only thing I could do right now is declare bankruptcy but even that would only take away about $10,000 of loans Of course my student loans will still be there and THEY are the ones that keep calling my parents and asking them for my phone number so that they can call me.  Anyone got any info on how things are going in the courts to get the bankpurst reduced from 10 years to less???

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/August/2004 at 10:18pm

Please don't make a mistake about the creditors HAVING to accept whatever you offer. What that really means is that they have to accept your payments (ie. credit them to your account). It DOESN'T mean that they have to consider such payments as satisfactory to manage the debt. In other words if you don't pay them according to the agreed upon schedule (prior to default) they can sue you any time they think that will ensure a better rate of repayment.

Once you're in default, they can sue you any time for the full amount no matter what you offer or pay them if it is less than Payment In Full of principal and interest and penalties.

From the moment you default, the full balance is payable immediately and anything less than that is a prima facie case for litigation. If they ever think that a court would order higher payments than you're making or if they believe that a seizure of accounts or assets would close the debt out or they see some avenue of recovery that is more lucrative than your payments...they'll sue. If you've given them enough information to do it with.

Tell them nothing. No addresses, jobs, friends, families, sources of income, phone numbers or anything else. Without that, they won't have enough information to be sure of successful recovery after judgment.

Good luck!

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Johnny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/August/2004 at 11:12am

 

 The rules governing crown debt, and provincially guarantee loans do not apply to this system of enforcment. Third-party collectors working government guaranteed loans know the rules, and are still willing to break them as everyone knows - and shares their stories about it.

 So, if you have guaranteed student loans in default, they cannot sue you at any time. All efforts and resources must be exhausted first before the governments will consider excercising their legal procurements through justice.

 

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26/August/2004 at 11:28pm

Of course Johnny is right.

Those are the rules.

But, Johnny, let's face it. Those are rules and they break rules.

Those are internal regulations and guidelines, not legislation. They certainly won't tell us when they modify them. And even if it was legislation, few of us here are still naive enough to believe that they always obey the law.

Assume they will do anything they can to you and prepare your defenses accordingly. The law permits a judgment to be entered against you if you are 30 seconds in default of a payment. If they go ahead and file the claim, the court will give them their judgment. Not to take that into consideration is to count on their decency, compassion and humanity.

They have none.

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Mersan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mersan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/August/2004 at 7:13am

In my case they sought a judgment even though I was making good faith payments while trying to get my affairs in order.  The Canadian Department of Justice is a very slippery and corrupt adversary.  In any game you prepare by acquainting yourself with the rules and regulations that govern  how the game be played.  Over the last 7 years that I have been entangled with Justice never once have they thrown a legal punch.  Senior counsel have obstructed justice, committed accounting fraud and engaged in a criminal conspiracy to deprive me of my rights. Paralegals have been intentionally negligent in the handling of my account and this constitutes criminal negligence.  They have changed my interest rate, they have knowingly inserted false entries and dates into my statement of account and then as a coup de grace they decided to cover everything up by setting up an alternate accounting system that hides their crimes. Their strategy is one of coersion and intimidation.  They will destroy me if I challenge them.  By them I refer to the Department of Justice in Canada.  So justice will be meted out. But this is not the justice that one might expect of a “civilized” and democratic nation.  This is the justice of the loan shark.  Let’s cut the pretension.  If their are no checks and balances the institutions and laws that protect us from this form of tyranny will break down. 

 

Canada as a democracy has failed.  I have lived abroad for over thirty years in Africa, Asia and Latin America as well as the US and have never encountered anything like it.  I had some African friends over the other night and we talked about corruption as Africa’s underdevelopment is usually attributed to how rampant it is.  By any standard that we came up with Canada lead the pack in official corruption and government malfeasance.  A while back I spent a few months in Addis Ababa which is the poorest place I have ever been.  I attended a couple of seminars where they were trying to educate the civil service on corruptive practices which in most part just involved various types of exchanges such as giving tea money for a service or giving priority for a token payment.  These kinds of practices exist everywhere including Canada.  And they do have their equivalents of Paul Martin who as Finance Minister directed substantial business to his private company.  If one though encountered a problem in a government office one could go to another level to have it resolved.  Also Ethiopians, as other governments in Africa are doing, are actively battling corruption and it is in this area they earn their high marks over Canada where there is almost no oversight of the civil service and zero accountability and transparency.  

 

http://www.waltainfo.com/conflict/articles/2004/jun/article3 .htm 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lasergirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/August/2004 at 9:03am
Is anyone elso on anti-depressants and in therapy
because of worry about their s/l's (among other
things)? I can't tell you how many times I have
seriously considered suicide as my only option. I
am trying to hold on but it does get hard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mersan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/August/2004 at 12:06pm

I probably went off topic a bit but what is therapeutic for me is to put my situation in context.  I am a lifer and my account has been at Justice for about 14 years and there have been times where the educational and student loan system have driven me to incredible despair.  It has caused great stress in my marriage. Perhaps the biggest ordeal was suffering through this in silence.  There were moments where I blamed myself for my state of affairs. The people at justice seem to delight in criminalizing my debt burden and my inability to pay.  Whenever briefly I have bought into their world view is when the depression has become worse.  When I feel best is when I fight back.  Writing about it gives me satisfaction as I know they are lurking. 

 

I am calm now even though the big battle remains ahead.  It still preoccupies me but I know that when it is finished there will have to be criminal charges against those at Justice and HRDC who have broken the law.  This is the chance they take in litigating this.  They will be facing consequences for perhaps the first time.

 

The important point is that I have gotten through it and they have tried very hard to destroy me.  So keep your chin up.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lasergirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/August/2004 at 12:44pm
Hi Mersan. I try and do my best to be a responsible
Cdn and pay something towards my s/l's. I am
going back to school so in (max.13 yrs) I will
probably be going bankrupt again. I am getting to
the point where I simply don't care.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/August/2004 at 4:44pm

 

laser girl,

 Contact me and let's talk. 

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote momof2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/August/2004 at 7:01pm

glad to hear i am not the only one struggling with depression and stress over these sl's.  anyone else not sleeping ?  we should all get together on msn and chat at 3 am.

BNS actually had the balls to call me today - someone i have never dealt with before, actually suggesting i could renegotiate my OSL for more manageable payments.  what is manageable when you arent working and have 2 kids ??  boy did i let her have it.  i tried asking for that three weeks ago and was told no way would they do that for me i would have to prepare myself for the fact that the loan would go to collections shortly - they wouldnt even take the lousy 40 bucks i could pay at the time.  lets see if the paperwork she promised me this morning ever reaches me.  she also had the nerve to suggest i take out a personal loan to pay off my csl - honey, if i would qualify and could afford the payments - wait a second, if i could afford the payments i'd BE paying my csl and osl -  i swear to god you have to be brain dead to work at BNS.

i have the lovely task monday morning of calling TD because i cant afford my full payment this month - had to replace a smashed light on my vehicle at a lovely 150 bucks otherwise i could scrape by as i have been doing.  im hoping they will be nice since i have been trying to keep up to date even though the card is maxed out big time.  i actually havent been able to sleep because im sweating being short 75 bucks on my visa payment.

how can i pay my csl osl and my visa on a lousy 250 a month ???  theres no way in you know where.  and that money is my cctb and i should be putting it away for my kids.  god i suck as a parent but i guess having a sane parent is worth it.

im kind of looking forward to going into collections - they have to take whatever i can afford to give them each month - even if it is only 5 bucks.  i am hoping to keep the osl out of collections but at this stage in the game im not holding my breath.

and my husband wonders why i cant sleep  - i keep telling him he was better off before we got married.  our house is also full of mould and we get mice in the fall and spring.  there is wet rot in the basement and a lovely musty odor that keeps everyone out of the basement.  the roof leaks, the foundation leaks, and we apparently have 2 years to get our kids into seperate bedrooms ( we are in a 2 bedroom house - and its a small - i mean small - house for two kids under 3). there is nothing larger in our area - we would have to add on - and we can't afford that either.  worse than that - my hubby actually has a mortgage on the place so we are trying deperately to sell it before the place falls apart.

miss mj, i know how you feel.  if you need to commiserate with someone, you know where to find me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lasergirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/August/2004 at 10:00pm
Hi John. I will contact you early next week. Thanks,
lasergirl

Momof2- YOU DO NOT SUCK AS APARENT!!! I've
read your posts and it's pretty obvious that you are
very concerned for them. God#mn any system that
can be so repressive as to do this to someone
. F*ck them and f*ck
their unethical tactics and constant mistakes. It'll be
a cold day in hell before I have anything good to say
about a bank and the whole student loan system.
Take care of your kids first. They are more important
than the gov't.

I have no problem trying to do the right thing and pay
what little I can every month but when the system
repeatedly kicks you in the ass and criminalizes and
belittles you then I get annoyed (well a little more
than annoyed but I can't use those kind of words in
this forum!!). They claim to have all these great
programs to help s/l debtors but nobody seems to
qualify for them. I am on your side in this matter!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Casey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/August/2004 at 6:35am

Originally posted by lasergirl lasergirl wrote:

God#mn any system that can be so repressive as todo this
 to someone .
F*ck them and f*ck their unethical tactics and constant
mistakes. It'll be a cold day in hell before I have anything
good to say about a bank and the whole student loan
system. Take care of your kids first. They are more
important than the gov't.

I have no problem trying to do the right thing and pay
what little I can every month but when the system
repeatedly kicks you in the ass and criminalizes and
belittles you then I get annoyed (well a little more
than annoyed but I can't use those kind of words in
this forum!!). They claim to have all these great
programs to help s/l debtors but nobody seems to
qualify for them. I am on your side in this matter!!!

I'LL DRINK TO THAT! 

Just so the lurkers don't get it wrong.. I'll be drinking water.. Can't afford anything else even if I wanted to..

Casey . .

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dazed&confused Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/August/2004 at 7:23am

Originally posted by lasergirl lasergirl wrote:

They claim to have all these great
programs to help s/l debtors but nobody seems to
qualify for them. I am on your side in this matter!!!

 

These programs are all well and good for those whose loans are still in good standing, but I have yet to see any decent initiative for those in default and struggling to pay back their loans.  The attitude seems to be to "let them rot in hell, and we'll skim off the rich creamy interest". It sounds so nutty, it's as if the 1990-1995 changes to the CSL program were scammed up as one major cash grab by the feds.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dazed&confused Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/August/2004 at 7:30am
Those programs are fine if your loans are still in good standing, but I have yet to see any decent initiative for those whose loans have defaulted. The attitude seems to be "let them rot in hell and we'll just keep collecting the interest".  The whole idea is so preposterous it's as if the 1990 - 1995 changes to the CSL system were designed to screw over students in one big cash grab by the feds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote momof2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/August/2004 at 11:33am

why is it that the government sees nothing wrong with the big six banks posting mind-numbing profits ( what was the number - 625 million profit last qtr by BNS ??  i forget - i was too stunned after hearing it on the news) but sees nothing wrong with gouging students and young parents trying to pay off our debts.  with what i paid into the system in tax dollars before i started working would cover what i borrowed for my sl's twice over and what i pay the bloodsuckers in user fees and service charges since i opened my first bank account would pay off my minivan.  my son had his birthday yesterday and i said screw my visa payment and ordered him a birthday cake and balloons.  you're only three once and i'll be damned but my kids always come first.  my credit will be in the sewer once my sl's are in collections next month so screw it - does it really matter if i miss a visa payment if my loans are in default ??  usually i try to keep everything current but some times you just have to  the system and do what feels good.

sorry to run on like that but it felt good.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/August/2004 at 2:34am
very much depressed

my advice read the forums there is so much info

and dont let depression rule you take control of your life: first step is this  site for info
Johnny save me!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Casey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/August/2004 at 4:13am

Hi guys..

This is really sad though laughable at how stupid some highly educated people can be. Unfortunately this is what we are up against!

After "F'ing around with the mental health system for over 20 years and not really getting much help, I finally demanded and got to see a shrink.

What a disappointing experience.. not sure if I should  or .. 

She had the answer to all mine (our) problems..  That is according to her, none of us really have any problems.. 

1) - STRESS: "just a normal part of life and we have to learn to live with it."

2) - FINANCIAL PROBLEMS: "just get your finances organized and pay your monthly payment on your SL and it will not be a problem."

She didn't hear me when I told her it was hard enough to have a basic living, eat etc on what I got each month..  or at least the  replied sure wasn't very helpful "don't worry, you can work it out"

3)- FINAL SOLUTION: "I am here to help you.. I will give you medication to make you feel better. Then you will have no problem getting a job and everything will be OK"

I asked about medication and my fears of the problems and side effects.. Her reply.. "all medications are good, there is no problems with them. Just take your meds as we tell you and everything will be just fine!"

So in talking to me for less than 20 minutes, asking questions, not really listening to what I said,  minimizing my worries, concerns and problems, this person claim to know everything about me. Based on this she can make a diagnoses??? 

What a waste of time. This shrink (Alice in wonderland) has her head buried so far in the sand that she has no idea about real life..  (must be taking her own meds!) Sure, If I got her $100,000 per year, I wouldn't have these problems.. How about her living on my $9,000 per year? I'd like to see what problems she would have then!

Based on this experience, if this is a true example of the support there is for us, it's no wonder other people in power can't see or understand the problems we are having.. It really makes you wonder what we're hanging around for??

Casey . . (drowning in the sh*t pile!)     

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