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Never ending depression

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lasergirl View Drop Down
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Joined: 05/October/2003
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lasergirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/August/2004 at 9:19am
Hi Casey. I understand your frustration.

I would suggest that you try again re: another
counsellor. Perhaps your regular gp would have
some additional info. I see a social worker at the
clinic where my family doc is. I don't want to see
another shrink (at least right now). The meds can
help but they are only part of the therapy process. I
don't think the goal of any kind of therapy is to have
the therapist solve your problems for you. I would
think that learning new coping skills and providing
support is more appropriate. Please don't give up. I
am trying to hang on as well.   
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momof2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote momof2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/August/2004 at 10:58am

being educated does not mean a person is intelligent or able to communicate or apply theri knowledge ( unfortunately).

definatley try to get a new shrink.  tell your shrink now that she is not being helpful at all - it might make you feel better telling her how useless she is and it might help her adjust her style and possibly help others that she sees.  i'm not suggesting a screaming rant but stuffing her degree in a trash can and lighting it on fire would be fun...but not polite

i am still struggling to get properly diagnosed after a year of tests.  depression, anxiety, mood swings, insomnia, fatigue, carpal tunnel, thyroid problems, sore muscles and poor memory, stress...my doctor is now looking at chronic fatigue syndrome or fibromyalgia on top of my carpal tunnel.  i think he's hoping once we can pinpoint what is physically wrong with me the other stuff( anxiety, stress, depression) will magically disappear.  did i mention my gp is way too relaxed ?  but he's the only doctor in town who doesnt just throw drugs at everything so though it might take longer at lest he will figure out my problem.  i just hope it doesnt take much longer

i have no access to a shrink right now and the area social worker is a birdbrain (not to mention she has a big mouth and since i live in a small town i really dont want everyone to know my problems).  the specialist i am trying to get in to see has about a four month wait period.  for now, these forums are my therapy.

so if anyone needs someone to talk to, feel free to email me.  sometimes just having someone listen to you can make a big difference.

hang in there - things have got to get better, right ?

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lasergirl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lasergirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/August/2004 at 12:48pm
Hi momof2. I am trying to be an active participant in
my treatment for depression. It's hard for many
reasons but one thing is that I feel what is the point
of trying to be co-operative with the student loans
people (the ca's) because they will just try and take,
take, take and intimidate me. It's hard to move
forward when this problem will exist for many more
years. I suppose therapy could help us to deal with
this problem differently and to develope better
coping skills. What did any of us on this forum do to
deserve this treatment? I only wanted to make
something of myself and be a productive member of
my community and country. Instead we get treated
like sh*t and harassed and abused.

What happened to JavaMan should become an
international human rights issue. Instead, Canada
loses the benefit of his knowledge because all the
gov't can see is the bottom line (BTW Java I am not
criticizing your decision to leave Canada and never
return-I understand why you did so).

Put yourself and your family first momof2. keep
trying to find the support you deserve. I am here to
listen, empathise and offer support if I can.
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momof2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote momof2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/August/2004 at 2:07pm

my husband had an interesting observation last night.  he rarely says much but this made me think. ( this might ramble on a bit - sorry)

i owe the bank money - about 30K.  the same bank that posted in excess of 600 MILLION in profits previous quarter.    600 million/120 days=5 MILLION in profits per day - and they continue to systematically destroy my life by sending me to collections rather than negotiate in good faith.  oh feel sorry for the banks being victims of computer fraud and spending all that money upgrading their securtiy systems when my hubby was still defrauded of 600 bucks by an email transfer he never authorized ( the rcmp caught the guy and he got his cash back but thank god he had overdraft for the four months it took to get resolved.  when you live paycheck to paycheck a 600 mistake causes lots of problems).  oh feel proud to put your money in the bank they are a sponsor of the olympics or the theatre or whatever but how many grants and scholarships have they given to deserving students ?  how about some loan forgiveness for those of us who could really use it ??  if i can qualify for interest relief why cant i qualify for loan forgiveness or debt reduction ?  and what would possess a bank to give a 19 year old a credit card in addition to a student loan anyways ??  they really expect a family of 4 to live on 35K with today's cost of living ??  35K would be fine but once the government takes their cut its more like 24K - for rent/mortgage, vehicle payment, insurance, gas, hydro ( gotta love the way that bill has been going through the roof), gas/heat, phone, vehicle maintenance, health care ( dentist, glasses, medication.  not everyone has a health plan), oh and groceries too.  other bills - personal loans or credit cards, water bill, taxes, internet, cell phones, satellite or cable tv never leave much room for entertainment or savings.  none of which is even considered for debt reduction or loan forgiveness.  but the bank is trying to make things easier for students to repay their loans - sure, if you haven't missed any payments yet.  they post on their website that they have donated so many millions of dollars to charities over the last year.  should i pat them on the back for being so socially responsible when their policies drive people to homelessness, depression, collections and mental breakdowns ??  i thought we were their customers and they worked for us - not the other way around.  i try to navigate the websites to get info on my loans but can't - since my loans are before 2000 i cant access anything online, either at the bank (because i have no account for them to like it to) or NSLC.  so i have to sift through the last ten years worth of statements hoping that documents i need didnt get trashed in a flood.  i try to negotiate a payment i can manage but no one seems interested in a revision of terms.  and why is it that i always talk to a different person even though i request to speak with Nicole at BNS - she hasn't returned my calls at all this past month.  god forbid they hire someone who knows what they are talkning about - ask them about collections and they have no idea what you can expect.  the lst girl i spoke with suggested i get a personal loan to pay them off.  honey, how can i afford payments on a personal loan when i cant pay you. hello, lights are on but noone is home.

i cant pay them back.  not that i dont want to ( mind you the way ive been getting jerked around since graduation i must admit to not being in a hurry to pay them at all ) i just cant.  because the same government that allowed me  - no ENCOURAGED me - to get into debt with their student loan program is the same government making it impossible for me to get a job  .  i cant afford car insurance (government regulated ).  i cant afford daycare (government regualated ) if i could afford the car insurance to drive my kids the 45 minutes to the nearest daycare facility ( government funding cuts ). i cant afford to work for less than 12 bucks an hour to cover the cost of daycare - 35 bucks per child per day plus the extra gas driving to and from daycare and i will likely have nothing left of my paycheck to put towards my loans once the government takes its cut  - so i am stuck in a nasty downward spiral.

why am i losing sleep over this ?  i owe money and i cant pay.  too bad for them, they should know better than to lend money to students.  i have no assets for them to seize, no means of repaying my loan in the next three years ( once my kids are in school i might be able to get a job, providing my health permits it and the job market is cooperative).  and the bank has no desire to wait that long - send it off to collections and ruin someone else's life.  that doesnt mean im not a good person  ( i think he made me cry here)

if the banks would freeze interest rates on student loans at 1% they would still make money and it would be easier for us to repay them.  if they were more flexible with paymnent options maybe they'd get more of their money back.

if they dont want to play nice, why should i play with them at all ??  play nice or go to your room is what i tell my kids.  same goes for the banks and the collection agencies and the government ??  play nice or else ?  pretty soon no one will want to play with them and they can kiss their profits goodbye altogether.

sometimes the man has a point...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/August/2004 at 9:01pm

Try to take a cavalier attitude towards the whole thing. That's what the collectors want to do...destroy your peace of mind.

The fundamental principle of debt collections is: Make it more uncomfortable to owe the money than to pay it off.

Therefore, if you are going to suffer by meeting their demands, they have to make you suffer proportionally more if you DON'T meet their demands. If you will undergo pain to pay them, they will try to ensure that you have even greater pain if you DON'T pay as demanded.

Tell them, "Sorry, can't help you today. Anything else?" Be relentlessly cheerful. On the phone, it's only words. They can't do anything to you that they haven't already done. So do your best to honour your debts. Don't let them convince you however, that you owe it to anybody to cause your children to do without food, clothing, education, entertainment and medicine. Don't let them make you feel as if a tiny luxury in your life ( a movie, a few beers with friends, a pizza night with the family) is something your not entitled to. You ARE entitled to that much comfort and dignity. And that comes BEFORE meeting their payment demands.

No matter what your agreement, you have a right to live like a human being. You deal with that first. Then pay if you can. It was a loan. That's business. Companies deal with corporate debt in that way all the time. The banks are corporations, it's THEIR OWN way of dealing with business deals.

A bank will close its doors, lay off thousands of people and bankrupt hundreds before they will lower the salaries of their board members or their CEO. Why? Business. Those people know that you take care of yourself and your family first. Other considerations come later.

And you know what? They're right. Play by their rules and sleep well.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2004 at 1:34am

And Lasergirl? Thank you.

Let me make this point. The reason these abuses haven't become a major human rights issue is the fiscal-centred mindset that is typical of the Western world.

What I mean is that the only people who are being systematically abused here have first been excluded from consideration by society. Their abuse therefore is of no interest to anyone. No one cares about someone who is abused if they have first been reduced in dignity to "welfare recipient". No cares about your complaints if you are a "debtor". If you are a "bankrupt", your suffering is completely immaterial to anyone. Just pay your bills, get on the RIGHT side of the fence and maybe you'll find an audience for your indignation.

While you are one of the marginalised, you can press your face up against the glass, but they'll just pull down the blinds. Get inside where it's warm and the conversation will only be about where to invest and avoid taxes, because we "waste so much of our tax money on welfare schemes like the student loan give-away".

Human rights? Hell, they only apply to human beings. If you're not among the fiscally independent, you don't qualify as human.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Casey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2004 at 3:56am

Originally posted by lasergirl lasergirl wrote:

Hi Casey. I understand your frustration.

I would suggest that you try again re: another
counsellor. Perhaps your regular gp would have
some additional info. I see a social worker at the
clinic where my family doc is. I don't want to see
another shrink (at least right now). The meds can
help but they are only part of the therapy process. I
don't think the goal of any kind of therapy is to have
the therapist solve your problems for you. I would
think that learning new coping skills and providing
support is more appropriate. Please don't give up. I
am trying to hang on as well.   

The thing is that I know what my problems are and have taken enough programs on coping, managing stress, depression etc. that I should have my papers.. However we the consumers of these programs do not qualify for credits.. I don't want or need pills! That sh*t can really screw you up big time.. I don't want to be drugged.. If I can't think what is the point of living?

I know how to manage my stress and my life. I have accepted the way things are with my mental and physical health.. I could get along quite well if I could rid myself of the stress caused by various government departments.. CSL is just one, the major one causing problems. These agencies want/ demand paper work to tell them what the problem is.

As to seeing someone else.. that luxury is not available where I live. When you live out in the sticks of western Canada you just don't have a lot of choices. People with money can go to the larger cities, that is not an option for me.. Being poor makes it just that much easier to keep you down..

I only have a few more years before retirement.. If I can hang on that long, things should get better.. One would hope that the government by that time should finally understand how poor I am.. Maybe I'm expecting too much.. Maybe they will start a new retirement program that locks up old retired SL debtors..  Sure, it wouldn't make much sense, locking people up at $50,000 to $100,00 per year to keep them. I sure would cost a lot more and do nothing to recover the debts. Then, who said the government ever does the smart thing?

Casey  . . .

 

 

 

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momof2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote momof2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2004 at 7:30am

casey - i know what you mean about living in the sticks. i don't have the luxury or seeing a shrink without a 2 hour drive and a 4 month wait so...

unless the government will get their heads out of their rear ends im afraid anyone making less than 40K will continue to get screwed over.  and if you owe money they will screw you over again.  it will be impossible for me to get out from under my debt - so i am trying to listen to javaman and relax about the whole thing.  live first and worry later - if i can pay them great if not too bad.

a smart government ??  thats an oxymoron if i  ever heard one

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2004 at 9:28am

You have to take care of yourself and your family first. That's a far higher obligation than any self-imposed requirement to keep to the terms of a contract that should be adjusted to conform the the realities of today. Insisting that you suffer outrageously in order to meet the terms of an obligation entered into without knowing what the future would dump on you, particularly when it benefits no individual, is beyond Quixotic.

Live your life. Believe me, the bankers will. And the collectors. And everyone else who lectures you about your obligations.

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