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Category: Immediate Attention and Info!
Forum Name: Dealing with Abusive Collection Agencies
Forum Description: Help can be found here for dealing with these problems!
URL: https://www.canadastudentdebt.ca/forum_posts.asp?TID=1152
Printed Date: 28/March/2024 at 7:12am
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Topic: CBCL
Posted By: Cherylt
Subject: CBCL
Date Posted: 10/June/2004 at 3:43am

Hello again!  It's been awhile since I've posted, everything has been going quite well.

Anyhow, to get to my story.  In May I decided to move from the apartment I was living in (something I was putting off for quite awhile).  Reason for moving: the man living above me as taken up for child molestation charges and I couldn't have my nieces come to visit with that literally above my head.  So I moved.

With that I found a place but a 30day notice was not given so I had to pay rent in two different places.  So I did and with that I found that there wouldn't be enough for my student loan payment with CBCL of $300.00 each month. 

For the last 9 mths I have found it extremely hard coming up with this amount to pay in.  So with that I said enough and went to scotiabank and did a little something about it.

So last night I got a call from this Mrs. Leca ( Leca pronouced Lesa),  she asked to speak with me and she told me your cheque bounced.  I said no it didn't I put a stop payment on it, the last three as a matter of fact.

She stopped.  I told her my reason for moving into another place and said that the payments will have to be lowered.  I also told her that I was waiting for someone to contact me since every month it seems as if each file is passed on to another operator (first I was dealing with this Andrew guy then I don't know who the other two were).  I also said that they were rude and unjust in certain situations and that I know that they do break the rules and threaten.  She said that in certain situations it calls for those measures.  I said no, don't lie to me.  I told her sure there are people out there that are sure to avoid paying a debt.  But operators there, your fellow employees, are threating those who cannot pay what you are requesting, or turning down payments that they offer to make.  And I know that you are NOT allowed to do this. 

I told her not to give me any false information, cause I will go above and beyond to find out the truth and that it's all at my fingertips.

She said that okay, you can pay in $100.00 per month. and that she will send me out a financial report (so I can fill it out).  I told her that it would be my first time getting one.  Then she told me that I should have gotten one before I was to start making payments..I said well that's news to me, because I didn't.

I also said that when I sent in post-dated cheques, i requested that I would have some type of payment history sent to me on a reqular basis.  I said, and that was a written request!  I didn't receive anything.  Also, I told her that I have other loans, other agents looking for money and they can't understand why I can't give it.  They won't believe that I'm making payments.  And, they don't understand why CBCL can't give me any information about my payment plan!  Because simply if it was the other crowd I was making payments to they would give me info to send to you!

She said well, we can't do that because of the privacy act.  (At this moment I was in my glee! I had my cake and ate it too!) I said, look I work in a clinic dealing with private and secure files all day!  I know all about the new changes with the privacy act, I went to a seminar and everything!  Don't lie to me!  And besides I'm the one that the file is about, I'm asking you to send it to me!  Not them!

She then said that she will send out to me a regular payment history, and financial report for me to fill out before sending other post-dated cheques in to CBCL for $100.00 per month!!

hip-hip hooray! Sorry it's so long!  But man, Just had to type it!

P.s. I did more talking than she did and when it was time to end the call SHE couldn't hang up quick enough!  I'm totally on a high power trip!  Ha ha! Thanks soooo much to this site.

 




Replies:
Posted By: masy
Date Posted: 13/June/2004 at 5:00pm

Congrats! I know what it is like to deal with these people so good for you!

I think many people don't know what their rights are when it comes to collection agencies.

I remember when I was being hounded by one and she wanted me to send her 6 post-dated cheques. I was told by a lawyer to NEVER send agencies post-dated cheques, just send them money orders per month. So I told her that's I would do, and she said she can only accept post-dated cheques and will not accept any other form of payment. I said, "really, so by not accepting money orders, you're essentially not accepting my payments at all. So basically, you're refusing to do the job that you were hired to do, which is collect a debt for CIBC." She responded with, "Well, how much would those money orders be?"

I've learned that collection agencies have to accept a payment plan based on your terms, because any payment is better than no payment. Also, if you make any payment at all, they will not have a strong case against you if they threaten to take you to court, because you are making payments, and not just dodging them and not returning their calls, which is the worst thing you can do.

I had three different agencies calling me, each handling three different portions of my student loan. I was expected to make three separate payments per month with three separate interest rates.

Seeing that my credit was already screwed, I went to credit counselling, and now I just pay one payment per month and no more harassing phone calls.

I even had to lower my payments temporarily with credit counselling when I was between jobs and it was no problem at all.

Might be an option for some of you.



Posted By: poopsie
Date Posted: 30/June/2004 at 6:28am
Hi there - Just wanted to let you all know, as I had one time worked in the "collections" field. If any collector calls you, you have the right to say "Do not call me anymore", This is applicable only for third party collection agencies such as CBCL and Nordon etc. They are third party collection agencies. If they insist, demand to be transfered to there supervisor and advise that you will be seeking legal action if the calls do not stop!!!

   Poopsie


Posted By: fedup
Date Posted: 12/July/2004 at 7:21am

Cherylt,

All i can say is knowledge is power.

Good for you!



-------------
fedup


Posted By: Theresa99
Date Posted: 26/September/2004 at 11:23am
:)


Posted By: momof2
Date Posted: 26/September/2004 at 3:33pm

poopsie -

if you ask them not to call you, would they interpret that as you were being uncooperative and that you are trying to duck your debt ? 



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 26/September/2004 at 3:59pm
Absolutely. And if they have the avenue of execution they will ask for permission to sue. If not they will close it as uncollectable. Or perhaps put into the "check every 3 months" file.


Posted By: momof2
Date Posted: 26/September/2004 at 4:04pm
java - would uncollectable apply if you were unemployed and unable to work ?  what would they  consider uncollectable ?


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 26/September/2004 at 4:11pm

Depends on the agency. No agency likes to send one back to their client; it's an admission of failure.

What they want is proof you're unemployed (EI or welfare stubs sent in each time you get a check) along with a nominal payment. That justifies keeping your account open. It prevents the statute from ticking over and it keeps tabs on you so they can pounce when something good happens for you. For that, up to date information and continued contact is what they want.

A truly uncollectable account would be if you died, preferably intestate, became permanently hospitalised at government expense and had nothing to seize, or if you skipped cleanly and could not be traced after several attempts (and they're very, very good) or if you left the country for a place they can't reach you.

Even then they'd try from time to time. But they'd quit and move on to someone else.



Posted By: momof2
Date Posted: 26/September/2004 at 4:23pm
im unemployed but do not recieve any benefits - cant qualify for welfare since hubby works.  thought there may be a disablilty check in my near future, depending on how things go with the next round at the doctor's office.  chronic fatigue is just so much fun.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 26/September/2004 at 4:26pm

 

 Most collection agencies enjoy requesting legal action in cases where they do not have blanket permission. In some case,s their commission rates go up in the event. Collection agencies do not feel it is a defeat to suggest or recommend legal action. It makes that account more collectable in their eyes and minds.

 An account is deemed uncollectable when all efforts have been exhausted without any commitment. This is how it is defined in the agency environment.

 

 



-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 26/September/2004 at 4:49pm

Johnny's right again. I didn't mean send it back to the client for legal action. I meant no agency likes to send it back as uncollectable.

Agencies like to have the client authorise legal action. As Johnny pointed out, the rates go up and less effort is needed to do the job. The big thing is that it makes up for all those empty threats when they actually get to file a claim. And then if they have a judgment, execution is much easier because the courts will help and depending on the province, they can use baillifs, sherrifs and in some cases even the police to help seize assets.

But the client will need certain criteria fulfilled before a lawsuit will be approved.

Minimum balance. The case has to be worth it. In most cases the judgment will cover a portion of the actual costs involved in filing the claim and trying the case. Not all, though, so the judgment amount has to be enough to warrant it.

Avenue of execution. There has to be a pot of gold in order for them to go chasing your rainbow. Seizable assets (your own vehicle, jewellery, art collections, more than the standard household allotment of electronics etc.) bank accounts that they are aware of, or employment that they don't suspect you will just up and quit when the court ordered garnishment hits your boss's desk.

History of failure to collect in any other way. I guess nobody wants to deal with lawyers; even those who retain them.

ALL of those elements have to be in place. Not just one or two of them. That's why I strongly recommend to everyone that you NEVER give them information they can use. That will deny them one of the elements they need to file the claim.

Ask any firefighter. A fire needs three elements. Heat, fuel and oxygen. Take away any one of them and the fire ain't happening. Same with a lawsuit. Take away even one element and you won't be sued. Take away two for safety's sake. Take 'em all away for a guarantee.



Posted By: Mersan
Date Posted: 26/September/2004 at 5:09pm

I am sure you are aware of Karl Popper’s principle of falsification.  Well the last two elements were absent in my case and they sued me.  The suspicion is that it was a limitation issue and so that fourth element would trump the three you mention.  Also gullible as I was they may have been working a scam on me and I was too preoccupied to catch it.  It is important to note that in the US no rules or laws apply. 



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 26/September/2004 at 5:39pm

It is true that the likelihood of a lawsuit increases as the limitation date approaches. But along with the avenue of execution should be included a method of service. (perhaps the second element should all be lumped together as "useable information" including but not restricted to sources of revenue.

It is possible of course, to get an order of substitutional service, but most judges would want to be pretty sure that the method would actually work and that standard methods have been tried and failed. Publication of service for a debt claim is very rare.

If they don't know where you are, where you live or where you work, they can't serve you.



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 26/September/2004 at 5:40pm
And, Mersan, technically, if your loan was defaulted, that fulfilled the third criterion. If it wasn't defaulted they never would have got their judgement.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 26/September/2004 at 6:19pm

 

 Java,

 HRDC/ SDC will litigate to enforce that the statutes do not come into force. This is the only reason for litigation, really. When an agency refers an account back to the HRDC for justice due to non-compliance, the department usually sits on the account until a limitation issue arises. It not only increases, it is a given in today's recovery movement. The Provinces have the same protocol for guaranteed loans. The banks will sue IF it is recommended to be done based on that old "avenue of execution" factor. The HRDC does not require any such avenues because they have their own methods of recovery that others are not privy to conduct.

 As for methods of service, Public methodology is a rare occurence. Substituted service is not as rare any more. If an individual remains hidden, the judgment can still be obtained.

 Johnny

 



-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 26/September/2004 at 6:23pm

 

 Mersan,

 Contact me at some point tomorrow. I have some information for you.

 



-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: zafire
Date Posted: 26/September/2004 at 9:18pm
If HRDC has taken a loan to court (and a judgement has been made), is there a statute of limitations on the ruling?











Posted By: sleepless
Date Posted: 27/September/2004 at 6:38am
I think the statute for the judgement is 20 years.  The problem is that the judgement can easily be renewed, so they can do it before the statute runs out.


Posted By: Mersan
Date Posted: 27/September/2004 at 8:10am

Java I was never informed that my account was in default.  I was not entitled to IR as I was out of the country and I had only sessional work.  A collection agency contacted me but they were targeting my wife who had only a part time job.  They kept calling her at work and I do believe I was somewhat abusive with the collection guy as a result.  The next contact was a call from an individual at HRDC.  Within a couple of minutes we set up a repayment schedule and I paid for 5 years.  I was never late with a payment.  In about 97 the paralegal who had my file called and said I had to increase my payment.  I told her that they knew my salary and this was not possible.  I said maybe it was time for me to look for a new form of work.  The paralegal thought this was a great idea.  I explained though that a consultancy would take a couple of years to get profitable.  I had to begin publishing in a new area and establish a reputation.  Well you know the gig. In the interim I would keep making my payments.  A year later I received a letter that they were going to sue me.  I pleaded with them to give me some more time as a judgment would destroy my business chances.  They said no deal.  On point 2 I had no salary or assets to attach and they knew it. 3) On point 3 I had been making payments and what was preventing me from increasing them was my salary and not any attempt to avoid paying.  And they decided to sue me. 

 

When HRDC hands the file over to their agent in the US that person finds a local in the state you live.  The local is given carriage of your file and has total autonomy to pursue whatever avenue of execution is deemed necessary. 

Your second point though relates to the Department of Education guidelines for lenders in that they are not allowed to pursue judgments against people who have no resources or salary that can be attached. 

Not certain what the relevance of service is here as they know where I am.  But I see the point that if they can’t find you they can’t serve you. 

A default is defined differently in the US than Canada. 

My point is that the vigilantes at Justice/Canada do not follow the guidelines.  They cannot be trusted. 

 

I thought a judgement was for 10 years in Canada and not renewable. A judgement for a student loan in the US is for life.



Posted By: zafire
Date Posted: 27/September/2004 at 12:06pm
Mersan, I asked about the possibilities of a judgement becoming "stats barred" since it might be an option for you. Why don't you just wait it out? I mean, for all the stress that this is causing you --and has caused you-- it might just be easier to turn your back on the whole issue and carry on.

Being in exile isn't so bad...even if it is for a stupid reason.







Posted By: sleepless
Date Posted: 27/September/2004 at 1:55pm

Mersan, sorry, you might be right.  On CanLaw its says "10 years and not renewable".

However, on this site there was a discussion and someone said 20.



Posted By: Mersan
Date Posted: 27/September/2004 at 5:28pm

Zafire I am not really that stressed out. Excitable and agitated maybe.  My limitation issue is the period they have to bring judgment and from my reckoning they already ran out the clock.  I am already in exile.  I was planning to try and return to Canada or rather Montreal but am now having second thoughts.  On the student loan I will be fighting and not running. 

 

Sleepless it is nice that Canada sets a limit on a student loan judgment for 10 years and they are pursuing a judgment against me for life.  Did parliament which legislates laws really give civil servants this power or was it something the despotic urchins took for themselves.  Well there are jail cells awaiting for those who usurp power and destroy peoples lives for a whim or a stick of chewing gum or whatever is driving this insanity. 



Posted By: zafire
Date Posted: 27/September/2004 at 11:33pm
Mersan,

I find myself in a similar situation: that is, living abroad  with a student loan obligation that went into default.  Unlike you, I don't think I have been sentenced, although that too may be possible since I have not visited Canada in almost six years. What I do know is that if I return to Canada, there are likely two scenarios: i) I will be hit will loan repayments / wage garnishments that will eat into the better part of my salary (on a loan that does not get any smaller at 10 per cent interest) or ii) a lifetime of the Canadian government skimming off income tax returns, etc.

By not going back, am I running away? Or will I be putting myself into an endentured labour situation?


Posted By: Mersan
Date Posted: 28/September/2004 at 2:53am

I was paying them and they stole the money and now they are engaged in a pretty transparent cover-up.  They are also insisting that they want to litigate despite the fact that the accounting fraud, obstruction and conspiracy are well documented.  I am determined to seek redress here. I really have nothing to lose by going to court.  They have everything to lose because if the documentation I have on them is submitted in a court there will have to be criminal filings.  It is that egregious.  I have a smoking bazooka loaded with enough incriminating evidence to bring down the department of justice. 

 

Zafire so what I meant by not running pertains to my resolve to fight them on the criminal issue.  It has nothing to do with residence.  As default in Canada is a permanent condition I see no responsibility on the borrower to repay once that status is assigned as it is a barbaric way to treat people.  If your file has been assigned to Justice you have 6 years for them to find you and get a judgment.  Beware though that they most likely will not follow the law.

 

 



Posted By: zafire
Date Posted: 28/September/2004 at 3:17am
Be careful when going to court --chances are that they will have a priori cast you as a criminal... There was a post here of a fellow who showed up in court and the way the judge treated him was laughable, in true kangaroo court style. I guess my overall feeling since I first started realizing that I was banging my head against the wall is that there is no point. Once, while speaking to someone in Ottawa about my student loan, there was this kind of "don't bother trying to get your loan figured out because you're f**ked if you do and your f**ked if you don't" attitude that imbued what he was saying.

I simply chose the "f**ked if I don't" path. 


Posted By: Mersan
Date Posted: 28/September/2004 at 3:53am

Beginning in 1998 there has not been a single instance where HRDC/Justice has followed the law or standard accounting procedures in my case.  At this point what can they do to me?  I discovered that my payments were being stolen. They have never been able to account for the money or what happened.  Instead they have engaged in an elaborate cover-up that continues to this day.  I do get your point but our show down will be in a US court.  And if this nonsense persists I am going to the RCMP.

 



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 28/September/2004 at 4:26am

You are aware of the commission of a crime. You're the victim. You say it is fully documented.

What do you mean "if this nonsense persists"?

Do what's right.



Posted By: Mersan
Date Posted: 28/September/2004 at 4:52am

That message is for the others.  It means I am not going to be intimidated.  I have done what is right and reported these crimes to the chief law enforcement official in Canada.  I have in other words written in great detail about this to the Attorney General and my reports have disappeared.  They don’t seem to care.  I posted a bunch of articles about corruption in Canada that were published before the election and all of these it appears were ignored by the general public.  No one I talk to in Canada seems to have a clue what is going on.  The exception is this board.

 

 I get the impression from your posts that you have this blind faith that Canadian justice works according to some prescribed code of logic.  You report a crime an action is taken.  If you are judgment proof they won’t sue.  It doesn’t work like that.  If one was simply dealing with criminals here they would perhaps want to cut a deal to cover their tracks.  But they are both criminals and morons and it is difficult to have a dialog with people who have absolutely no regard for consequences.

 

What should one do that could be considered right?  



Posted By: dazed&confused
Date Posted: 28/September/2004 at 2:29pm
Mersan, could you get an international third party to oversee your case? Much in the same way the U.N. oversees elections when there is a high probability of corruption at the ballots.  I'm thinking Amnesty International may have resources to show you the way, seeing as it is the Crown that you are fighting. Hard to fight for justice when the sherriff himself is dirty and the shootout's in his corral.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 28/September/2004 at 3:54pm

Gee, Mersan I never thought of myself as having blind faith in Canadian justice (or anything else, for that matter).

I was only asking you why you would wait for the "nonsense to persist" before you would deal with the RCMP.

Strikes me that the nonsense has persisted for long enough to justify talkng to them if there's any substance to your allegations.



Posted By: Mersan
Date Posted: 28/September/2004 at 5:43pm

Student debt is not considered a human rights issue in Canada.  I have called them and just about every one else.  I have not tried an international group. 

 

But I have talked to people at Foreign Affairs and the Auditor General’s office and they refer me back to Justice.  In the last few posts much of the detail was intended simply to refute this theory that if certain elements were not in harmony they would not try and bring suit.  That is not true.

 

Java you are a spectator and not in the game.  If you ever attempt to resolve your situation you will see it ain’t easy.  I suspect if it was you would not be where you are. 



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 28/September/2004 at 9:06pm

Wow, Mersan! All I did was ask you what was preventing you from contacting the RCMP.

You're the one who said you were waiting to see if the nonsense persists.

You have quite a talent for attacking those who don't immediately accept you as the final authority on everything you deign to lecture us on.

And by the way....I am very much a participant. You have no idea what efforts I made to resolve my situation, which incidentally was somewhat more egregious than accounting errors. Or a conspiracy to commit accounting errors.

No one here is belittling your efforts, so why don't you back off a little? We, or at least I, have a great deal of sympathy for someone who saw his ideal jobs go to those whom others considered better suited. It must be tough to see others succeed where you have failed; I'm very sorry for you. But I'm not your enemy.

Yes, people can make a living by the written word. I can and I do. Every journalist I know does. I'm sorry you aren't able to. Please accept my hearfelt commiseration; but there is really no need to attempt to marginalise me on an issue that is significant to me in a way you may never understand.

We're behind you and support you. We hope that your consultancy eventually finds all the success it deserves. There's really no call to take cheap shots at me or anyone else here, okay?



Posted By: Mersan
Date Posted: 29/September/2004 at 4:51am

Well Java your little tirade was full of cheap shots.  What you have simply done is adopted the position of those in Canada who blame borrowers for their plight.  It’s the Darwinian paradigm of survival of the fittest and those who don’t cut it are simply whiners.  You are boxed in by that mode of thought and may not be aware of it.  It’s just an observation.

 

The issue of contacting different agencies in Canada is a bit complicated at present.  The intelligence services are conducting extensive background checks on individuals who apply for various documentation through Immigration Canada.  I don’t know if this includes passport applications but I have heard of people having trouble.  It’s all a bit vague but it includes collecting data on individuals from the various government departments. Where is this information housed?  What are they doing with it?  Is there oversight?  What happens if bad data gets into the mix?  My priority is making sure all “the errors” in my case are cleaned up. 

 

I stated that you are somewhat removed from the scene and that there have probably been developments that you are not that aware of as you are not active.  If you intend to live abroad it is beneficial to keep up on those developments.  



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 29/September/2004 at 3:33pm

C'mon Mersan, that's not what you said and you know it.

And do us all a favour and stop misrepresenting our positions. I never said, implied, suggested, felt or took the position that the borrower is to blame for the problem.

Far from it.

I'm sorry if I fail to genuflect when you start your pontificating, but it is possible, you know, to have a different position on an issue and still be intelligent and literate.

I recognise your bitterness. But go be bitter at those who made the errors in your accounts or the academics who hired someone better suited to the position or the editors who sent you rejection letters or to the clients who won't pay you to harangue them like you do us.

Originally posted by Mersan Mersan wrote:

Java you are a spectator and not in the game.  If you ever attempt to resolve your situation you will see it ain’t easy.  I suspect if it was you would not be where you are. 

So Mersan,I'm very sorry about your tragic story. I really am. So are the others on this site, I suspect. But please recognise that everyone here has a story. Everyone here has been screwed and everyone here has a right to their viewpoint, whether it satisfies your demand that it dovetail with your personal prejudices and superior posturing or not.

Do us all a favour. Disagree, agree, whatever. But don't lie about what we said, and don't try to exclude someone from consideration out of envy, or a suspicion that they see through you.

So once again. Lighten up, OK?



Posted By: Mersan
Date Posted: 29/September/2004 at 6:00pm

Java  Are you now the main voice on this site?  Do us all a favor you say. Did you have a vote?  Just curious.  Why am I threat to you? 



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 29/September/2004 at 6:46pm

My apologies, Mersan. Let me rephrase. Do me a favour and don't lie to me about what you said to me. Given that this is an open forum, I spoke as one of many who are capable of reading your posts.

Do you think it's possible for you to chill out a bit? No one is attacking you. I'm not threatened by you or any of your insults. But you seem to get all bent out of shape because I fail to accept as a given that your blanket assertions carry the force of something carved on stone tablets and carried down from the mountain.

Holy smokes, Mersan, we've all been to school, here. That's why we're here. Some of us may even be as educated and qualified as you. Many have accomplished a lot more in the face of even bigger obstacles.

I fully support your efforts to climb out of the hole that your experience with student loans has put you in. I genuinely hope that you eventually find what you're looking for. I honestly wish you success. Repeated failure is demoralising and embittering. So please, don't try to alienate someone who is on your side.

I'm proud of you for all of the effort you put in to rectify the situation. Now can you stop sniping at me? I don't need this and the other members of the forum must be getting tired of it.



Posted By: Mersan
Date Posted: 30/September/2004 at 3:30am

Java you were using a rhetorical device where you claimed you were the many.  I was just curious. 

 

You are telling me to chill out!  Take a look at some of your posts.

 

On engaging you personally.  From my posts on the relationship between social policy and health you have been on the attack.  I asked why and you said you don’t care if there are any changes in Canada as you have your mangos. 

 

On this issue if I am simply disgruntled and lack the skills others have who get the jobs in the Canadian University.  Or if my life is one big failure because of the student loans. That is your opinion. 

 

I have posted that my case is in play and you are away and your case is not.  You keep mentioning the limitations. I have also posted that my positions here and the way I articulate them are intended for a larger audience. I have been very honest and clear as to what my situation is.

 

I see this board and my case as an opportunity to have an impact on student loan policy.  You do not share that view and have stated that.

 

 I have also posted that my intention is to return to Canada.  You belittled that.  As you did the fact that I had confidence the integrity of institutions could be rebuilt.  You’ve been very argumentative.

 

I do not see us as being on the same side on any issues.  You can interpret that as you like.   



Posted By: momof2
Date Posted: 30/September/2004 at 3:37am

mersan

if you paid on your loans for 5 years surely you have receipts for this ?  your case has been dragging on for so long why are you still playing with those idiots at justice and hrdc ?? 

if you have all the documentation and are getting nowhere with justice and hrdc, try somewhere else.  what about the original lender ?  each bank has an ombudsman to investigate complaints.  if you have proof of your payments wouldnt the bank have to investigate independant of hrdc to see where the money went ? 

what about the media ??  gesh, that would make hrdc look fantastic in the eyes of the taxpayer.  embezzel 5 years of student loan payments then spend how many years in litigation at the taxpayers expense trying to get it sorted out with a debtor who isnt even in the country.  seems to me it couldnt hurt at this point. 

"if this nonsense persists..."  what are you waiting for, justice and hrdc to tell you you now owe 250K and your first born to cover the interest ??  i would have gone public a long time ago if it were me.  either you have more patience than st. theresa or you are a glutton for punishment or you have a master plan that you're keeping to yourself.  i'm all for standing your ground but know when to walk away and start the fight on another front.  if they dont want to play the game by the rules, change the game.

as for the vague reference to contacting different agencies in canada, well if you have actual proof that they are gathering info through immigration in some insidious plot, insert the link so we can all read it, otherwise you sound a wee bit like mel gibson in conspiracy theory. 

mersan, you are obviously an intelligent guy who has been through a ton of crap with your loans.  and we sympathize, we really do.  but arguing with java is not going to solve anything.  he's not the antichrist, you know. sniping at him will accomplish nothing.  rather than trying to alienate java and the rest of us, why not see if we can help, either with ideas or information or maybe a fresh perspective.

java, mersan, obviously you guys have a hard time agreeing on anything.  if you guys want to argue, can you do it somewhere else ?  you could always ignore each other, you know.

please, you guys, can we find something better to do ?  like figure out how to fix the problem ?  seems like a more productive solution than sniping at each other to me.



Posted By: zafire
Date Posted: 30/September/2004 at 7:54am

Hi all....

I too have to admit that Java's quips about Mersan not being able to get a job becausde others were more skilled a bit backhanded... There has been an ongoing discussion on this board about the academic labour market and its tendencies to hire Americans and/or people possessing US graduate degrees. I have found a similar situation in a lot of schools, not all mind you, but a great deal, especially in Canada's flagship schools like UBC, McGill, etc. For some, leaving forever is not an option, let alone reinventing oneself in some third world enclave. By the way Java, do you know many people are killed by hanging out under coconut and palm trees?  



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30/September/2004 at 2:42pm
Zafire,

I'm obviously willing to risk death by the gravitational action upon coconuts. That's just the kind of on-the-edge wildman I am.

I'm sorry if you detected a backander at Mersan in my remarks concerning his failure to find employment in his chosen field. I was careful in every post to make it clear that his inability to get work was not necessarily an indication of his shortcomings but rather might indeed be a (mis?)perception on the part of those who made the decision. 

Sorry if that wasn't clear enough.

My main objection has been and continues to be his insistence on misrepresenting my statements and out and out lying about me and what I said. In any case, I certainly respect his right to have his say (god knows that if you read this topic, you read his position and theories in detail and at length). 

Be nice if someone else's opinion (not even a contrary one, mind you...just one that fails to jump up and applaud his) was not dismissed as "argumentative".  As far as I know, this is intended to be a forum for support and the exchange of ideas. EXCHANGE implies some degree of reciprocity.

So, one more time. Can you please lighten up, Mersan?



Posted By: dazed&confused
Date Posted: 30/September/2004 at 4:08pm
Is it a full moon again??? Just curious.


Posted By: momof2
Date Posted: 30/September/2004 at 4:21pm
actually, i think it is...


Posted By: 6273kat
Date Posted: 30/September/2004 at 4:25pm
 Lordy Lordy....Can you feel it too...


Posted By: zafire
Date Posted: 01/October/2004 at 1:02am
It is actually a couple of days after the full moon... Am I not nice Java? 


Posted By: Coffee
Date Posted: 01/October/2004 at 11:28am

Let us all start anew!

Solidarity people!

Student debtors of our land, unite!

Who needs a drink?

 



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01/October/2004 at 3:49pm

Leave out the "of our land part" and I'll join you!

Maybe Mersan will too.



Posted By: BigFatherA
Date Posted: 02/October/2004 at 7:00pm
Student Debtor's of the WORLD unite!!!

Make mine a vodka. 


-------------
BigFatherA
Priest & Teacher
non carborundum illegitemi est


Posted By: Coffee
Date Posted: 04/October/2004 at 7:51am

Sorry Java and my bad.  The issue affects everyone in all parts of the world.

Think globally and act locally!

 



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 04/October/2004 at 3:34pm

Yes, as I've pointed out elsewhere, Canadian student loans have scattered Canadians across the globe.

So I raise my glass....Canada...Up yours!



Posted By: Coffee
Date Posted: 05/October/2004 at 8:06am

Guest,

Its not the country you take issue with, I hope.

I trust you are refering to the the idiots  that we elect to govern and represent our interests.

 

 



Posted By: zafire
Date Posted: 05/October/2004 at 11:11am
what happened to Java Man?


Posted By: David
Date Posted: 10/December/2004 at 10:50am

Dear All:

Thank you for educating me on how to deal with collection agent!

I am receiving rude and stupid threats from a CBCL agent and I was scared before I came to this forum.

After I come up with a strategy and tactics to deal with this CBCL agent, I will let you know. As well, as my situation gets troubled and needs your advice, I will ask for your advice.

Unity is power. Information is power.

Thank you all.



-------------
D Solution


Posted By: Proudcdn
Date Posted: 06/January/2005 at 9:11pm
I would like to know how to go about filing a harrassment case against CBCL.

I have followed all the proper channels. 

1) I have written to their ombudsman 3 times asking them to stop phoning me before 6:00am and to stop calling me at work.  Each time I was assured it would not happen again.  In fact, I even have a letter stating that the only form of contact I would receive from CBCL would be written correspondence.

2) I have written Consumer Affairs 3 times to lodge complaints against their practices.  Each time I was told they were making a file, and would look into it.

3) I have contacted the RCMP.  I was told there is nothing they can do.

4) I have contacted the local Vancouver police.  I was told there is nothing they can do.

5) I have contacted my Member of Parliment (Hedy Fry).  This has been useless.

6) I have contacted lawyers who claim I have a case against CBCL, but they are unwilling to take them on.

Are they really above the law?


Posted By: hunter
Date Posted: 07/January/2005 at 5:01am
Proudcdn

Talk to the bank where the loan originated and discuss it with them.

When Nordon was harassing me I wrote a letter to the RBC Ombudsman, and told them everything.

Apparently they did some investigation, or at least they told me that they did, and I ended up getting a nice apology letter from the Pres. of the RBC.

Document everything and contact the Banks Ombudsman.

And file a complaint with the consumer protection branch of the Justice Dept.

I also did this with Nordon.

Good luck



Posted By: whereto?
Date Posted: 07/January/2005 at 7:22am
One threat that worked for a friend...he was being called constantly at all hours regaurding his sister who had run away and hand't been seen for 2 years, was a threat to contact the .....  I believe it was phone company and CRTC....  if it is found by one or the other of those that the persons telephone is being used as a means of communication to make threats, the offending agency can loose thier phone service.  The CA stopped calling pronto.  Record some calls and Id look into this...


Posted By: Proudcdn
Date Posted: 07/January/2005 at 7:22am
I have actually done those things Hunter.  In fact ScotiaBank is willing to take my loan back to the bank level if I pay all outstanding interest ($4500).  Trouble is I do not have that money.
They have also offered me a settlement (approx 70%).  Again I do not have the money they would like to settle for.

The issue is that CBCL blatently breaks the law and their seems to be no legal re-course for us little guys :(


Posted By: kwelmm
Date Posted: 07/January/2005 at 10:37am

Proudcdn......(I am too )..Anyway--Don't be fooled by their "settlement" offer.  More often than not this is a ploy to see if you can come up with a bunch of money and then they still come after you for the rest--if it is not a valid offer.  If the CAs offered the settlement...they probably didn't even speak to ScotiaBank about it first.  I was tricked into believeing an offer from a CA was all good but I never received anything from the actual creditor!!!!!!!!!  Thank goodness I never went through with it.....I couldn't get the loan amount anyways  .

It's easy to believe we are the little guys when feeling hopeless/helpless--When you do make progress with any complaint you will not feel so powerless anymore-GOOD LUCK!!



Posted By: BigFatherA
Date Posted: 07/January/2005 at 7:38pm
It sounds like Proudcdn needs to call Johnny.

-------------
BigFatherA
Priest & Teacher
non carborundum illegitemi est


Posted By: Proudcdn
Date Posted: 08/January/2005 at 6:36am
As for the Settlement offer, it is coming directly from ScotiaBank.  It is also in writing that once the agreed figure is paid that I am absolved of all debt owed to ScotiaBank under account #123456.

I have had success settling my CIBC loan in this manner.

Again the issue is not the settlement, the issue is not that I owe money, the issue is not CBCLs tactics.

The issue is CBCL (and other collection agencies) are beyond reproach.  NO ONE will take them on.  No one has been able to make them stop breaking the law.  Have a look around these boards ... there are 100's if not 1000's of people that have stories of Collection Agencies breaking the law.  If even 10% of these people filed complaints via the Justice Department, HRDC, Consumer Affairs, etc, etc ... WHY ARE THEY STILL BREAKING THE LAW?

I want to sue them for harrassment.  Trouble is nobody seems to want to take this on, much less help me process it.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 08/January/2005 at 8:30am

 

 Collectors are intelligent to know how to avoid getting wrapped up or caught in complaint issues. This is something that I have been trying to convey for quite some time.

 People have legitimate complaints about collectors,and their   many tactical approaches, bad attitudes, and unlawful behaviors. Why are they still breaking the law? Why not ask each provincial ministry this question. Why not ask HRDC this question. They will all tell you the same things, and that is ... 

"Collectors are not allowed to do this, that, and the other thing, yadda yadda... and if it is happening, it is something we (the governments) are not aware of, badda bing, yadda yadda, boo, ... and if caught doing so, collectors and their agencies will be either addressed or punished within the limitation of the acts and laws that govern, yadda yadda... We completely  discourage collection agencies from this type of behavior and conduct... yadda yadda."

 How many times have we heard this on the evening news? How many times have we read this in the newspaper?

 Because it is still a chronic problem, it is further proof that the specific authorities are trying to cover up their inability to manage and monitor such things, and that collection groups know how to break rules and get away with it. Otherwise, there would be less problems.

 In many cases, the governments will act only if there is proof of the misconduct. In other case,s the governments will measure these complaints based on their frequency and similarities, and make a beef or two with the agencies in question.

 I would implore someone to call the HRDC or any Provincial government and ask this question:

 "Why are collection agents - and agencies not punished for misbehavior issues and breech of the acts - and in some cases the law?" If a number of people were to make this phone call, and post the responses each have received, it would be quite interesting.

   

 

 Johnny    



-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: Coffee
Date Posted: 10/January/2005 at 7:42am

Johnny,

I had repayment arrangements with CBCL for the past couple of years (150/mth) and in September 2004 recevied an ornery phone calls from a supervisor demanding full payment for the outstanding CSL (phone calls which I returned and subsequently endured the old fashioned verbal abuse and scare tactics).

These exchanges led me to file a formal compliant with Fatima (last name unknown) at HRDC. To their credit, HRDC (and I commend Fatima for her professionalism in handling my file) suspended my file for six months, meaning they contacted CBCL and , I assume, told them to cease the harassing phone calls. I also sent her a letter outlining my experiences with CBCL and asked a response. I have not received a response. I can only assume HRDC has hundreads of compliants similar to my own. 

I agree with your approach with HRDC. I know that I will be following up with them shortly and will be asking that very question. In order for HRDC to answer this question they have to be cognizant of the fact that there is a problem. Either they are aren't aware that there is a problem or they are aware yet reluctant to address the issues problem because to do so would consitute their acknowledgement of their profound inability to manage and monitor the flaws of the student loan program. Based on my experience and those docmented on this site, I am inclined to accept the latter.

Keep up the good work, Johnny.  

Coffee

 



Posted By: WestCoastGirl
Date Posted: 10/January/2005 at 10:06am
Be armed with as much info about your CSL as you can, or at least have as much of the info that CBCL and HRDC have to know what they're after you about.
Did you know that you can request a copy of your CSL file??
The following information was provided to me in a letter from HRDC in November 2004:
The info is protected under the Access To Information Act so you have to send a written request to:

Jean Dupont, Director
Access to Information & Privacy
Place du Portage
I floor, Phase IV
140 Promenade du Portage
Gatineau, Quebec K1A 0J9
Or you can fax the written request to: (819) 953-0659
** it takes 30 days from the date they receive the request.

RE: CBCL - Fatima (not sure of last name) is the Coordinator for CBCL.  You can contact her for info pertaining to your debt: 1-877-683-8339

NATIONAL COLLECTION SERVICES' toll free number is: 1-888-819-2516. Call them to discuss any issues pertaining to defaulted CSL's.

In addition, I too dealt with a total beeeeeeeeyatch at CBCL. She was brutal. I mean, she was abusive, r
ude, belligerent and harassing on so many levels. I was rude back to her and called her on a few things. Her tactic was always to leave a snotty message on voicemail, then when you called her back, she'd answer in a snotty tone like she was the busiest person on earth and before you had a chance to say a word she'd stick you on hold for a minimum of 5 minutes. Anyway, I filed a consumer complaint about CBCL and specifically her. I urge anyone else to do the same, whether it was her or someone equally as rude.  The only way anything gets done is if everyone complains.

(Ontario residents) Go to this Government site and click on  E-complaint:
http://www.cbs.gov.on.ca/compform/english/services.htm




Posted By: silence2long
Date Posted: 10/January/2005 at 7:33pm

Thanks WestCoastGirl

I hope that your post will help me in dealing with CBCL...will let you know how it turns out.  I will request my CSL file right away.

I have been reading all the posts and feeling encouraged by it all. I am happy that I found this site....when I got on here I wanted to cry..I am so mentally exhausted by it all.  I finally have a good job...and don't want garnish of wages in the picture.  It would kill my job for sure.  I am unsure how to deal with it all except the way that I have been...call display and then immediate delete of message when I hear the first automated message or spew from their mouth.

But today unfortunately...I listened ...As I have way back in the distant past...and returned the call.  The guy I spoke to at CBCL seemed reasonable at first...until I would not divulge where I was working.  Then he took a different tone(what was I thinking?)  He told me that I have never paid the company anything in the past three years.....wow have I really been doing this for that long???  I already have my Federal loan collecting my income tax yearly....which is not very much until just recently....guess that has been going on for years too. 

I am just sick to my stomach....it brings up all the emotions that I have kept under wrap for so many years...it defaulted I guess back in 1996...and have been living like this for years...paying some when I could...did all the post-dated cheques and such ...listened to the harrassing phone calls...filled out the income statements/budget sheets..up the yingyang....until one perfect day..(not sure what CA it was in then)  when I got a call to up the payment..said I couldn't... and told that I would be charged for fraudulent information...He said "There is no way that a family of four can live on this income"  I told him that was the problem...why was he asking me for more?  Told me I would be reported for fraud...blah..blah...blah  I reported him to Consumer's Afffairs and the calls stopped for a long time.... Now I am not sure if that was my provincial or federal...got lots of calls back then.  I have lots of papers tucked away ...just need to go through them....lots have been used to start the fire I am sure...

I am not sure what to do from here...too start with I dispute the amount of the loan...it is far overblown...though with interest who knows.  I don't know if I am being rooked or not...but I heard once that if you dispute it and then pay even a dime to the collection agency that you are then agreeing with the amount that they have set forth as true.  I said this to him and he told me that is a lie...that I can dispute it by faxing him a letter stating I dispute it and send a cheque for $100.  This will be considered a good faith that I do want to get this worked out...he said that "you know you at least owe $100 right?" I agreed.  If not he would have to return this to the client (gov) since I have never paid his company CBCL anything ever and they have had it for 3 years.  It is deemed uncollectable, and will go to ruling and have my wages garnished.  Is this true ???  Why is the federal just taking my income tax then...would this have been a ruling or just otimatic ?? Can anyone help me in this ?  He said that I have until Friday 14 to call back or fax letter or arrange payment. 

My pleas in the past never got anywhere...I barely got anything more than a common beggar to begin with the four years that I went to school.(9,000 Federal(income tax withheld)4,000 OSL--CBCL says it's 9000 now....my goodness that is pathetic to think I even had a baby for the last year....how did I do it...pass me the kleenex box....)  My story in like many of the 1000's....lost applications... reduced to eviction...food banks..denied for welfare because I was a student.  Couldn't come up with the measlely 300 to keep it in the bank under interest relief...which I had to apply for before I even finished. 

Wow this really sucks!!!  Sorry to bore you.  I just need help ???

Do I deal with it through CBCL????  Or go somewhere else ???  Will I be stuck with this indefinetly if I agree to start sending cheques again?  To an amount that I do not agree with?



-------------
silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long


Posted By: Sherpa
Date Posted: 10/January/2005 at 8:01pm
/

-------------
have a nice day


Posted By: Sherpa
Date Posted: 10/January/2005 at 8:21pm

I know exactly how you feel maybe requesting the information is just what you need to do to get a handle on itall. I'm going to do the same thing tomorrow.


I am so mentally exhausted by this whole mess i can't even think straight anymore.  I am second guessing myself. full of doubt. I too wonder if making payments is worth it and i do want to make payments.  Here is an example of a calculation of my debt according to the National Student Loan Center:


               Federal Loan   Provincial Loan


original loan  25,866     5,584


interest        16,764      3,619


total loan     42,630     9,203


min pymts    373.95      80.73  = 455.00 (per month)


(they give you 10 years to pay it off with minimum payments)


Seems hopeless doesn't it.


 



Posted By: Sherpa
Date Posted: 10/January/2005 at 8:33pm
please excuse the  < &n bsp;> on the 'total loan' line i couldn't delete for some reason.

fixed it for you - mark


Posted By: WestCoastGirl
Date Posted: 11/January/2005 at 10:53am
Guess what I got in the mail today? My CSL file. Holy smokes is it thick. It has everything!!!! Anyone who doesn't already have thiers MUST get a copy. It even gives you copies of ALL the transcripts between HRDC and CBCL (or whomever is calling you), and between CBCL and YOU. Seriously. Now I should add that I am more p.o.'d today than ever, as some of the entries from the CA's as to what was said in te conversations is not accurate. Big surprise. In fact a call I had with some a**hole just a few weeks ago seems to leave out all the nasty and abusive things he said to me and he even had the nerve to make some bs note that I was "in poor attitude" when I initially called them. What a jerk. Anyway, I have read through the 3 inches of paper they sent me and I still cannot figure out where they get that I owe them anything. You can even see through their own internal correspondence to each other that at times they aren't even sure who has what or where things stand with me. It's a friggin joke. All I can say is get a copy of yours. They told me it takes 30 days, but it took only a couple weeks. Maybe 3 tops. The other benefit to having it is if you need Johnny's help, you'll probably make his life easier if he knows what he's dealing with in advance.
Just a thought. Hope it helps. 


Posted By: 6273kat
Date Posted: 11/January/2005 at 11:18am

Westcoastgirl,

Can you get this information all from one source(CSL) or do I have to approach each lender/institution seperately?(Royal Bank/CIBC) I had/have several loans with banks and National Student Loans. 

Karla

 



Posted By: WestCoastGirl
Date Posted: 11/January/2005 at 12:48pm
All CSL related info:

To request a copy of your CSL file
: The info is protected under the Access To Information Act so you have to send a written request to:


Jean Dupont, Director
Access to Information & Privacy
Place du Portage
I floor, Phase IV
140 Promenade du Portage
Gatineau, Quebec K1A 0J9
Or you can fax the written request to: (819) 953-0659


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 11/January/2005 at 7:02pm

 

 Silence,

 If things become out of hand, and you cannot tame this problem, let me know. I can solve this little crisis for you.

 Johnny



-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: Coffee
Date Posted: 12/January/2005 at 8:12am

West Coast,

Great postings!

What other information should be in your cover letter to the Access to Information & Privacy? Will a social insurance number, date of birth suffice?

Also,  what is included in your CSL file? Any notes from the CA? 

Thanks for your help. This file will be very helpful when I re-send my complaint to HRDC! 

Coffee.



Posted By: WestCoastGirl
Date Posted: 12/January/2005 at 1:02pm
Here's what I faxed them word for word:

Dear Jean Dupont:  (not sure if it's a man or woman)

I am interested in obtaining a copy of my Canada Student Loan (CSL) file as per the Access to Information Act.  Should you require personal information in addition to my SIN (insert SIN here), please feel free to contact me by telephone or email at: (tel & email).

With thanks,
Me & my address

That's all. The next day a lady named Mrs. Carrier called me to get birthdate and a couple other things to verify who I am and that was it! Good luck.  Yes, notes from the CA ARE included. It is unbelieveable! 





Posted By: silence2long
Date Posted: 12/January/2005 at 7:16pm

Thank you for your reply Johnny.  I am in crisis.

After reading this site I have read some of the posts in the other forums.....Maybe I should have done that first....but I really wasn't thinking straight...I continue to read each night.  I have been on here quite abit.  I am not sure if I am becoming more confused but at least I am starting to do something.

WestCoast thank you again.  I have drafted the CSL file letter.

I have been sifting through my own papers...gee I wish I had better record keeping...it is all over the place...scattered like my brain.....I am only starting to realize how much this has really affected me, and re-affected me......at this time though I am coping.

I just made a HUGE discovery on my part.....I really thought something looked familiar..........LIARS.........

CBCL was once called  EQUIFAX CANADA (AFX) INC.  

Yes I have the collection notices to prove this.....I just want to say that in my previous post I said.......

filled out the income statements/budget sheets..up the yingyang....until one perfect day..(not sure what CA it was in then)  when I got a call to up the payment..said I couldn't... and told that I would be charged for fraudulent information...He said "There is no way that a family of four can live on this income"  I told him that was the problem...why was he asking me for more?  Told me I would be reported for fraud...blah..blah...blah  I reported him to Consumer's Afffairs and the calls stopped for a long time....

It was the same company....now masked under the name CBCL... when I reported the ahole back then Consumer Affairs said that it was not the first call that they had received about this CA and the individual.....Anyways when I was on the phone the other day and he told me that his agency..CBCL had had my file for three years with no response...I told him about the ahole from EQUIFAX in the past and he told me that EQUIFAX was where you get credit reports from... it is not a collection agency.... basicallly calling me a moron....." Do I have to repeat it ? "  I told him okay well it was something like that... He said "Well it wasn't"  I said "Well then tell me where did you get this account from then?"  He said that he did not know what collection agency it came from....  I told him then how can I know that unknown fees weren't taxed on?  Because I do dispute the amount.  He told me to just send my info... of what I think I owe and we will take it from there... with the $100 to show that I am in good faith.... Now I get it ....Just another ahole trying to catch me hook line and sink HER. 

MR NICEGUY..... JUST THOUGHT I WOULD SHARE THAT INFO...  Pretty sly don't you think????????????



-------------
silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long


Posted By: silence2long
Date Posted: 12/January/2005 at 7:51pm

A little poetry I did way back(1990)... I found this too while sifting through the junk...only this was before I got into the CSL chapter in my life(1991-1996).. It is appropriate I think since it was beside my discovery of the night.  That CBCL was once called EQUIFAX CANADA (AFX) INC.....I wonder how they teamed up in my junk(Ironic).  Maybe I discovered it before and forgot.  Anyways

Systematic people......looking out their...... Systematic eyes

They keep on tellin'.....Systematic lies....

Those people....those people....keep turnin' all the wheels

Those people...those people....neglecting how we feel

Systematic people....leading all their.....Systematic lives

They keep on ridin'......Systematic tides

Those people...those people.....I' ll tell you what they're worth

Those people...those people....are controlling our earth

Systematic people....looking out their....systematic eyes

They keep on tellin'.......SYSTEMATIC LIES

BITTER...me bitter???...so bitter it drove me to silence.  Kudos to this site I do feel empowered....I use to have a voice...Now I just need to educate myself more on what to do about it.

And by the way...the old letter format is almost identical to the new they simply changed the account numbers and called the loan something else...oh yah and changed the company name....the address went from EQUIFAX  800-1210 Sheppard Av E North York ON M2K 1E3  to......CBCL 104 -1210 Sheppard Av E North York ON M2K 3C4

 



-------------
silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long


Posted By: kwelmm
Date Posted: 12/January/2005 at 7:57pm

Silence-------I like that!  You nailed it!

Empowerment is the key  This site has done wonders for me, too!

 



Posted By: silence2long
Date Posted: 13/January/2005 at 7:16pm

Well another revelation for the night.....

The Collection House   TCH  is now called

Alliance One..... I have a notice stating that I owe them 16,000......hummmmmm...this is the federal loan that was once 9,000 and that I have been having income tax withheld for a few years..... well I can't wait to see that CSL file.

These companies don't send it off to another one....they keep them and just rename their companies.....This is freaking me out. 

The Collection House...1979 Leslie Street..Toronto, ON..M3B 2M3

Alliance One Ltd...1979 Leslie Street...Toronto, ON...M3B 2M3

This company has a lovely new letterhead...but why are they still trying to collect my money....when the government is already?????

They changed the account number minorly......but have kept their phone number the same.  Now I understand that companies fall into difficulties and new owners take over...but does anybody but me think this is really fishy?

It is like once enough people complain about a company...then they change their name...does this mean clean slate as far as Consumers Affairs is concerned.....makes you wonder how many complaints it takes in order to get their name changed ???  Then they act like they are somebody new that is there to be your saviour..."I can't talk about the practises of other collection agencies but we would like to make arrangements with you to pay this debt...blah...blah....blah...."

Has anybody else made these connections.....I am not looking to dodge these loans...as pathetic as it was to live in extreme poverty...I made it through...barely but I made it through.... I was pissed then...but now I am really getting stirred up.  Doesn't the government realize what they are doing to people through this system?  My time in school was when grants went out....and loan forgiveness hadn't started.....and screwed you around with interest relief....hence the CA's.....now this....is this a sick and twisted joke on this generation?

 



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silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long


Posted By: kwelmm
Date Posted: 13/January/2005 at 7:30pm
They are still trying to collect because the lein on the income tax is considered an involuntary payment (not sure of the correct wording there..)


Posted By: silence2long
Date Posted: 14/January/2005 at 11:28am

Thanks Kwelman

...but things just don't seem to be jiving.....maybe it will make more sense to me in a few weeks from now...this has not been a good one.  I continue to sift.....and read.  It is the weekend so I have a few days...This will not consume me...I will not allow it!!!  I promised myself years ago that I would not let this issue control me.....I broke that promise to myself this week....and I need to get a grip on it.  I refuse to live in emotional turmoil. 



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silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long


Posted By: kwelmm
Date Posted: 14/January/2005 at 12:14pm

Silence2long, take a deep, slow breath!  Okay...If the sifting and reading is increasing your emotional turmoil, step back from it and do take a break--refocus yourself!  If you let this drive you up the wall...it will!

Wait and see what the CSL file has in it that you posted you were going to request.  This will hopefully put things into perspective for you.  Until then...take care of yourself (your child needs you and you need you).

Best of luck!



Posted By: silence2long
Date Posted: 14/January/2005 at 2:04pm

Kwelman you are right.....that is exactly what I have been forgetting this week.  Unfortunately it is not the only issue on my plate this week.  I am also faced with a senior union member who is unhappy in their present position and wants mine.  A self-serving sport organization that my child is involved in is back at it again. To top it off this morning a rock hit my windshield...that I just replaced a month and a half ago.  So you are right...I do need to take a step back and refresh....I have barely slept this week.  And I am beginning to spew myself.....

Think I will go and have some snowball soup (hot choc.) and play a board game with the kids.



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silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long


Posted By: CARGO1
Date Posted: 14/January/2005 at 9:07pm

silence2long

It all can be over whelming, I remember when I first found this site I stayed up for days reading everything over and over and over again...lol the more I read the Crazier for knowledge I became.. it was addictive, it still is. (my girlfriend thought I had lost my mind)

 

Just remember to step back and live your life.

I hope you had a good time tonight with your kids

Troy

snowball soup...lol. I havent heard that in years... Think I might go have cup myself.

 



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            Â Â ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½The best way to forget your troubles is to wear tight shoes.


Posted By: silence2long
Date Posted: 16/January/2005 at 11:32am

I just want to thank those at this site....  WestCoastGirl.. Kwelmm... Cargo.. .Johnny...Momof2...and others... I feel so much more informed than I did a week ago !   I have stepped back and got some much needed sleep and time with the kids.... I will continue to check back here to read while I await the CSL file.... I will also be requesting my credit reports, I cleared up all my credit card debt(issued in college)in 2000...it took a few years to pay that off. I receive applications all the time in the mail and you can't imagine how joyful it is to rip these up!!! 

I have much to learn.  Wish there would have been a mandatory course in high school called OSAP 101????  OR a course period !!!

I am out of the fear mode I was placed in at the beginning of the week.... I didn't even realize it...thank you Johnny for that in another posting you made.... I'd love to call you and chat...but will go through this little process first so that I have my s*** in order.  I do need to take at least that step in sorting out this mess.  My signature at the bottom says it all.......Thanks...tommorrow begins a new week.... glad I got through the week without putting my foot in my mouth too much !!  I owe it to you guys

BTW...I found out that the senior union member cannot take my job untill at least next September... or untill their job becomes obsolete  .... at the moment I am fine !!!



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silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long


Posted By: diannetrudgeon
Date Posted: 05/August/2005 at 9:36am

Hi, Well I have a story to tell you about the Canadian Bonded Credit Ltd.  They are harrasing, irresponsable, jerks. I am a single mother of four children and I tried getting interest relief but was refused. So I told them as soon as I get a job I will make payments. Needless to say. They still harrase me. So I made payment arrangements and sent a years worth of postdated cheques of $52.00 a month. It wasn't even a week and the dirty jerks took $300.00 out of my account which was my Family Allowance. They Stole from my kids mouths, that is the only money I live on other than what my ex gives me which is $300.00 a month. I couldn't buy groceries, for my kids. I called them and gave them s**t and told them if the money wasn't back in my account I will go to the newpapers and News channels and let people know that CBCL Steals from single mothers as well as other people. They "SAID" they would email their manager to email the CIBC to put it back into my account. That was two weeks ago now. I have been calling them every day two to three times a day and nobody calls me back. I called my bank and they haven't recieved any emails. I don't know what eles to do. I will wait till Monday and if they don't call me I think I will go to the newspapers and talk to them about Canadian Bonded Credit Ltd. What do you think?

Thanks for letting me blow off steam.

Dianne



-------------
Dianne Trudgeon


Posted By: farmer
Date Posted: 05/August/2005 at 10:48am
Dianne, what you should do is go to your bank, and bluntly tell them that was NOT an authorized withdrawel, and tell to put it back in right NOW.

Think you will get farther doing this than dealing with the CA.


Posted By: silence2long
Date Posted: 05/August/2005 at 2:37pm
Silence takes a very deep breath as she reads the posts above in this thread.  I am choked....literally choked....(they are all my first posts that I wrote---which I felt was eons ago)   I came on here to make another post in regards to misdeeds to another poster....I will come back and make a post here in a few minutes.... and tell you how I would deal with it.

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silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long


Posted By: silence2long
Date Posted: 05/August/2005 at 4:25pm

So I made payment arrangements and sent a years worth of postdated cheques of $52.00 a month. It wasn't even a week and the dirty jerks took $300.00 out of my account which was my Family Allowance.

I can't understand how this can happen ???  Or how a $52 could be misconscrude at the bank level for $300.  There are a  number of posts on here about this happening though... but I am not sure that you can even do anything to recover this money.  It is most unfortunate.

I can offer this though........ you need to run to the bank and close that account, if they will not resolve this matter for you.  Go to another bank and open another account... if you normally have direct deposits from sources (Family Allowance -- CTC...etc.) contact them with your new banking information.... it is normally a very quick process even though they say 4-6 weeks... they recommend that you leave your other account open in the meantime ( if you have to do this--leave nothing in the account)

Ask your bank the source of which withdrew your funds ??  Put a stop payment-- restriction on the source-- then throw away your cheque book.

Write the CA a letter stating that because of their unauthorized withdrawl from your account-- you have closed your account and to dispose of the cheques as they are no longer valid( and will go NSF)  Tell them also that because of the payment arrangements discussed previously you will not be making a payment for the next six months. (The amount of their unauthorized withdrawl) When the six months have come to pass you will be sending monthly money orders in the amount of $52.

You will then have the power to send the money order on what day of the month you deem fit...

Myself on the other hand... if this happened to me...wouldn't send them squat !!

(I am not recommending this..just letting you know what I would do in case you are interested)

 

 



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silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long


Posted By: 1fatcat
Date Posted: 24/August/2005 at 8:26am

I am also having trouble with CBCL regarding a student loan. They keep harassing me for payments even though NSLSC has been receiving the payments. According to CBCL, no one has gotten anything. When I tell them to check with NSLSC, they say they already did (liars). Already half of the loan has been paid off, but CBCL keeps demanding payment for the full amount of the loan. It has gotten to the point where I no longer return their phone calls because it is a waste of time. They have ruined my credit rating because of their incompetence. I have already filed a complaint with HRDC, and have a sent in a complaint to both CA and BBB. With so many complaints aganst CBCL, one must wonder why NSLSC keeps dealing with them.



Posted By: kwelmm
Date Posted: 25/August/2005 at 1:09am

1fatcat (LOL  love the name!!),

It astounds me that so many complaints are made against CAs, and yet, what happens??  hmmmm...we all know...blind eye of ignorance? hahaha...of course when there is money and/or banks involved coupled with government agenda....that only spells one thing!  Dare I say....LOL....

Anyhooooo....good for you fatcat for taking the steps to complain...hope something gets done in your case!!!!!



Posted By: 1fatcat
Date Posted: 08/September/2005 at 4:23am

Well, I haven't heard anything as of yet, but CBCL has stopped calling. Don't know if that's good or bad. What I do know is that this whole thing has had a negative impact on my credit rating. Not entirely sure what to do about that. My employer does offer credit counselling, among other things, so I probably should consider taking them up on it.

CBCL is supposedly such a large company, yet they don't have a website, nor do they have anyway of reaching an actual live person who can help. Makes one think, doesn't it?



Posted By: Buff
Date Posted: 09/September/2005 at 6:41am

Fatcat,

They stopped calling because they no longer deal with Canada Student Loans. As of Sept 1, the government pulled all their CSL files from CBCL and they're going to give them to another collection agency.

You should get a letter from the new agency by mid-Oct (so says the government woman I called the other day), telling you who you now owe and how much. Until then, it's pretty much sit and wait, though you can make payments directly to the government in the meantime.

Personally, I'm waiting until I get something in the mail. If I send a payment now, I don't know that it's going to get credited to my account. I also put stop payments on the remaining checks that I'd sent to CBCL. They haven't yet been cashed and I don't want someone trying to ram through 3 months worth at once. That's a sure way to bounce at least 2 of them.

You can still call CBCL and talk to the person you were dealing with in the past. Not sure you want to do that, as it depends on the relationship you had with him/her. Either way, they can't do much except tell you that it's out of their hands now.

CBCL's number is 1-877-683-8339 (yeah, I do have it memorized). Push 3 if you know the person's extension, then dial it and the # key. If you don't know it, follow the instructions to talk to the first available person. They're a bit busy right now, so you might get stuck on hold for a while.

The credit counselling idea might be a fun thing to try, if only to piss the collection agencies off. I told my first agent that I was going to call around and she got so mad at me. She said it was a really bad idea, yelled a bit, then said that I was way better off dealing with her. Hmm, wonder if there's a reason I called her the Wicked Witch of the West whenever we spoke.



Posted By: 1fatcat
Date Posted: 09/September/2005 at 7:02am
Well that's good. Not having to deal with CBCL that is. I've dealt with collection agencies before and CBCL is by far the worst. I have been making payments through the government anyhow. That I will continue to do regardless who they give it to. Maybe they got too many complaints about CBCL? Who knows. At this point I don't honestly care, just so long as I no longer have to deal with these clowns. The funny thing is that most honest collectors (if there truly are such things) actually do recommend a credit counsellor. But that's been my experience anyway.


Posted By: reality
Date Posted: 17/October/2005 at 12:56pm
Here's my advice (and it's free)...I mean, c'mon, if you have money to pay Johnny, you have money to pay your loans...no diss to Johnny of course, if you have assets to protect, etc. from lawsuit judgments. I'm talking about more judgment proof people (like most of the people I see posting here, and me).  Use Money Mart or a credit union for banking purposes.  Keep traces of yourself or your dealings NOWHERE to be found.  Collectors use BS and fear all the time, even if creditors don't sue.  Do what it takes so they can't find you to mail you or talk to you.

However, if you're poorer than a church mouse (like me), 1st of all, get a new phone number (or even a cheap cell that's unlisted for a home phone), have it UNLISTED, send all collection mail back in a separate envelope with the notation "moved" (trust me, this works), this way Canada Post will still send you your wanted regular mail, and the collectors won't continue to waste postage on you, and DON'T ACKNOWLEGE ANYTHING (even if you intend to pay and need more time doing it) just use a savings account to accumulate money but DON'T PAY collectors A CENT....because if you even acknowlege them or pay them a buck they can and WILL harrass you to kingdom come...

I'm so poor I couldn't even afford a trustee to file bankruptcy...these are steps I took, and waited out the six year Equifax/TransUnion clock no problem...just as effective but cheaper than bankruptcy...then after you wait the **** out you can get credit again...to buy ASSETS SMARTLY of course, like real estate, etc.  SLs are TEN years, of course, but the tactics you use should be the same.

OVERALL remember, YOU are in control.  Avoid the guilt trips, fear plays, bullsh*t, etc.  Creditors don't care.  Collectors don't care.  They make their commish, and then they move on to other prey.    They can write off bad loans on their taxes anyways, so even if they "lose" they don't really lose.

Above all else, if there's no "there" there, they won't sue (or they would be very stupid to do so) because you can't get blood from a stone, so to speak.  In all my dealings, I've never been sued, or judgments entered against me.  If they can't find you, or you won't acknowlege, they can't sue.  If you give them a sob story, that's the worst thing you can do, because you've now acknowleged the debt and that's when they turn the screws to you.  To protect your sanity (and your long-term health), do the steps I've outlined here and you'd be better off for them.

If you can (or want to for morality/religious reasons) pay, pay of course, but accumulate first, then offer to pay a reduced settlement in one lump sum while insisting that all negs be removed from your credit reports first.  This you could use Johnny for (by now you'd have money to pay :)

Overall, of course, the whole Student Loan system needs to be radically reformed, if not abolished entirely.  Why should one generation get student grants and then the next pay out through their nose in the form of loans with INTEREST?  I mean, Jesus H. Christ, that is the single most form of regressive social policy I can think of, short of cutting welfare and forcing people to rely on charity for their human rights to adequate food and shelter.  How the hell are you going to or supposed to benefit society in general when you are not on a solid footing to begin with?  This is where the right-wing general thinking of the 90s fails so completely and miserably.




Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 17/October/2005 at 1:47pm

With all due respect, avoiding debt is your free advice? How do you know that "most" are judgment proof? In fact, no one is judgment proof. A judgment can be taken against someone without having a clear avenue of execution.

Hey, look, I am not judging you. Offer whatever sound advice you can that will help people solve the problems they suffer from. Just be aware that evading is not productive - and is in no way a solution. Maybe it is/was for you. You have your reasons.

I would like your thoughts on something, if you will please.

You said:

" if you have money to pay Johnny, you have money to pay your loans...no diss to Johnny of course, if you have assets to protect, etc. from lawsuit judgments."

Does this also apply to the $1500 +, several thousands more dollars for a consumer proposal, or the 25% commission that these so called non-profit credit counseling schemes profit from every dollar you pay into their debt pool?

Johnny

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: polyhymnia61
Date Posted: 17/October/2005 at 5:09pm

Reality...three posts and I no student loan story of your own? No questions?

Just curious...



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Home is where you are allowed to prosper.


Posted By: countrygirl2094
Date Posted: 12/December/2005 at 8:10am
Has anyone heard about their debts since the gov took back their csl's from CBCL?  Just curious, because I haven't heard a word from them or from any other collection agency.


Posted By: digimon
Date Posted: 12/December/2005 at 9:17am

Originally posted by countrygirl2094 countrygirl2094 wrote:

Has anyone heard about their debts since the gov took back their csl's from CBCL?  Just curious, because I haven't heard a word from them or from any other collection agency.

 

I have.  Total Credit Recovery (TCR) is apparently in possession of mine now.  They have been phoning me at work for more than 2 weeks now.  Apparently my file does not contain my home phone number.  I have requested a letter from them, but have yet to recieve anything.  I think Mr. Atta is becoming a little annoyed with me.



Posted By: Buff
Date Posted: 12/December/2005 at 9:26am

Countrygirl,

Nothing yet on my end.

In September, CBCL gave me a number for the government collection services people. The woman there told me that I'd get something in the mail by mid-October. This would tell me who now had my loans.

In mid-November, after still not receiving anything, I called back. The guy who answered said that my loan had not been assigned to anyone yet. I asked when it would happen and if he knew who would get it. He didn't know. He said I could mail in payments whenever I wanted in the meantime and gave me an address.

I then heard him type a few things on the computer. He asked why I was so eager to get this settled. He said that it's in collection and a few more months wouldn't make a difference. He typed a bit more, then said that given my payment history (small but regular payments), it would be there for a long time to come, so what was my hurry anyway. Easy for him to say. He has a nice little government job and can do what he wants.

Buff



Posted By: countrygirl2094
Date Posted: 12/December/2005 at 11:10am
LOL, no kidding Buff! Yes I was  told the same about hearing something by Oct.  But still nothing.  I asked the lady at hrdc if I would be charged interest while they played there little "find the new collection agency" game.  She assured me that interest would not be charged.   It wasn't my fault afterall that I had no one  to pay my money to.  As for all the post dated checks I had sent, I cancelled those babies.   I didn't want to get caught with my pants down when they started cashing all of them at once.  Besides, how do I  know who has them?  They are addressed to CBCL.....anyway thanks for replying.  At least I know i'm not the only waiting in limbo.  I hate waiting to know who the next agency is.    I know many people had problems with CBCL but they treated me ok.  I am worried the next guy won't be so nice.   I don't do well with being challenged.   


Posted By: Buff
Date Posted: 13/December/2005 at 2:32am

I cancelled my checks too for the same reason. I had 3 left at the time and I knew they'd try to push all 3 through at once. It happened too. Someone else on here said that 2 of theirs (maybe more, can't quite remember) were cashed at the same time. That would have hurt me. One at a time works, but not more, especially when I don't know they're going to be cashed.

Apparently people who wrote their checks to CBCL had them cashed by the government in late September. Theoretically, this means that they were applied as payments against the accounts.

No interest is being charged? Nobody told me that, but if it's true, that definitely works for me.

Buff




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