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Requesting student loan discharge after bankruptcy

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Topic: Requesting student loan discharge after bankruptcy
Posted By: persius
Subject: Requesting student loan discharge after bankruptcy
Date Posted: 03/February/2012 at 3:59pm
Hello. 
 
I'm posting this note for anybody who has already been discharged from their bankruptcy but still has their student loan hanging over their head.  This letter is based on laws here in Ontario but I quite certain that they are similar across Canada. I wish I could say that I have good news which will help some of you out but sadly I've been betrayed by this "justice" system and I wanted to post my experience to save you the same stress and frustration in case you are about to embark down the same road.
 
I was discharged from my bankruptcy in 2007 but what I didn't know was that my trustee went out of business and I wasn't informed. It wasn't until I received my first GST cheque that I learned it was through a second trustee who took over my file.  I realized back in November of 2011 that my loan is growing through interest charges and I need to deal with it asap. I made a few calls to various accountants offices and finally one man called me back with instructions on how to file for a "motion to discharge student loan for original bankruptcy".
 
He explained that the paper work can be done on my own and there would be a small fee for filing.  I ended up emailing the office:
Ministry of Attorney General
Court Services Division
London, Ontario

The individual who responded to me was {Name Removed].   When I explained my situation and what I was trying to do she informed me that she will mail all of the necessary documents directly to me and that I can just follow the directions and it will be very simple and straight forward. I was informed that it's very easy and simple to do. I ended up receiving three documents (templates).
1. Notice of Motion
2. Affidavit of mailing
3. Order (document stating that my outstanding debt is not applicable to HRDC, Ministry of  
    education and Ministry of education).
 
I'm guessing [name removed by Administrator] was the one who wrote various instructions on all the documents in red ink. I emailed her to verify all her directions were in order and she made very clear to me that they are!
There were some questions I had regarding to the "affidavit of mailing".  There is a line on the document which states:
"As supported by the attached copies of the regular mail receipts....".   Regular mail receipts!? 
I emailed her back asking what exactly this means. She stated that this is proof that you mailed the copies to all of the parties involved. When I asked what do I request at the post office for proof that the letters were mailed, she replied that when I go for my hearing I will just swear to the registrar that the documents were mailed and that's all there is to it.
When I asked her about signing all of the documents before mailing them out, she said that I should not sign anything. I will sign them on the day of my hearing in front of a witness
 
Before I can mail out any documents to anybody I first need to request a hearing date. I was told I can either attend in London or Kitchener.  Due to travel distance, time and finances, I requested a date in Kitchener to be set.  I was informed that due to my circumstances I was being assigned a time of 1pm as a courtesy due to the distance I had to travel.  All seemed set and ready to go!
I was instructed to mail all of the documents directly back to her in London along with the $10.00 filing fee and that would be all that needs to be done. 

I remind all of you who are reading this now that I clearly asked for all the details to be provided to me regarding this hearing. I was informed that once I speak to the registrar at my hearing, he will make a decision and sign the discharge for me right there and then if he agrees to it.  Seems simple and clean, right?  
Get ready for the next part.
 
The day before my hearing I receive a phone call from the law office of the attorney who will be opposing me in court!  I was told by the paralegal that their office will be requesting a postponement because they don't have all of my financial records.  I was stunned to say the least because nowhere was it stated that I will be facing off against a lawyer representing the federal government. There was no hint of this mentioned anywhere!  There also was no hint that I am entitled to legal council at this hearing. They sucker punched me with this move. 
On the day of my hearing things continue to go downhill.  I'm walking out the door around 9am and I get another call from the law office and I'm told that my hearing is at 10am rather than 1pm.  What??  I told her that there is a mistake because I have documented evidence (email sent to me from [Name removed by Administrator]) with me stating that I'm scheduled for 1pm.  "NO NO" she tells me. It's at 10am.  I arrive in Kitchener around 12 noon and rush to find the courthouse. Once I'm there I can't find my name anywhere on the board so I have no clue where I'm supposed to be going. Finally I'm directed to the courtroom. I speak with the court clerk who verifies I'm scheduled for 1pm, BUT, there is somebody else here for your hearing. 
 
Once my name is called, I approach the bench and find standing next to me is the opposing attorney. She immediately starts firing off her legal lingo and I have no clue what's going on. The registrar (aka judge) looks to me and asks what do I wish to do?  Before I can answer the lawyer suggests to the judge that the two of us be excused to have a brief conference outside the court room.  I'm now told by the lawyer that this hearing will not go in my favor because of the following factors.
 
1. All of the documents I mailed out where not in order, signed, witnessed etc.  All are invalid.
 
2. My financial documents were not provided to the lawyer for review so I don't stand any chance in court if I wish to proceed today. (I wasn't instructed to provide financial documents by anybody)
 
3. This is a one shot deal. If I want to proceed to request my debt be dismissed I must have irrefutable evidence proving why I'm entitled and I must present a solid legal defense because if I leave anything out or make a single error the judge will rule against me and there is no appeal and no second chance. His ruling is one time and final! (this too wasn't mentioned at any time by anybody).
 
4. The court is already annoyed with me today because I wasn't there for 10am (even though I have proof with me that I was scheduled for 1pm).
 
5. There is a 99.9% chance that you will be rejected in your request. No court dismisses outstanding student loans any longer.
 
6. If I want to stand any chance to be heard I must have legal council so that means I must request an adjournment until I have a lawyer take up my defense.
 
In simple terms, the very people I trusted to help me resolve this matter deceived me. Nothing they informed me about was valid or true. I was deliberately led down the wrong path and as a result I was forced into making a choice to adjourn. By doing so I forced myself in a position where I must find a lawyer now and have them take up this fight for me. This is a fight I can't afford in any way.  I cannot afford to miss any day of work because if I don't go to to work, I don't get paid! 
This is what will happen to any of you who want to try to have the court dismiss your loan. They will lie to you from the very beginning so please, don't do what I did.
 
As far as I'm concerned the entire justice system is corrupt.  This is not about not wanting to pay my loan off. This is about me not being able to pay.  This scum lawyer who represents the government is nothing but a merciless parasite bandit with no compassion for somebody who is living under financial hardship and just trying to get by day to day.  I can't afford to renew my drivers license and here they are telling me that they will oppose all my attempts to have this loan dismissed.  Ironically, this bastard lawyer is being paid by the government to fight me.  I can't help but to wonder how much the government will end up paying this piece of garbage by the time this is over? It actually may be cheaper for them to just write off my loan and call an end to it.
 
This letter is a breakdown of all that has happened to me so please consider the details carefully for your own safety. Don't allow them to corner you as they cornered me.  I trusted them and they shot me in the back the first chance they had while laughing about it.
 
Lastly, if you're alone in such a situation, please, PLEASE do not say anything to the lawyer opposing you.  It's their job to lie and mislead you and to convince the court that you are a lowlife deserving no mercy.  Remember, they want to bury you so they will twist all the facts to make you look like the criminal. They will be giving you "advise" but I guarantee you that this advise is not going to benefit you in any way.  In fact, anything you say can be used against you! Never forget that.  Keep your mouth shut for your own sake.
When this jerk was "advising" me, the only words out of my mouth were: "until I speak to council, I'm not answering you". This jerk kept pushing and asking me what I wanted to do now?  My response was the same each time. It became obvious I was annoying them because all they could do was roll their eyes at me and shake their head before returning to the court room.
 
 



Replies:
Posted By: persius
Date Posted: 04/February/2012 at 5:32am
One detail I forgot to include so I'm adding it here.
 
As soon as I stepped out of the court room with the lawyer, I was asked why I'm here today? Sounds like a stupid question but there was more to it than I imagined.  As stated, I was told that every document I mailed was invalid and unacceptable.  I stated to the lawyer that I followed every instruction given to me so I can't understand why I wasn't informed about today's surprises i.e. opposing lawyer, requiring a defense council etc.  The lawyers reply was:
 
"they ([Name removed by administrator]'s office) are not required to tell you these things".  
 
Can you believe this?  You are requesting legal information/directions from a law office and they are not obligated or required to inform you of all your rights to a fair hearing.  In simple terms, they are allowed to withhold vital information from you which would help you in resolving your case.  This is ethical?  This is justice?
 
I can't speak for anybody else but as far as I'm concerned justice is not available to all. Justice only exists to those who can afford to pay for it.


Posted By: davids
Date Posted: 17/May/2014 at 2:56pm
Hi,

I as well declared bankruptcy and my student load was not old enough to be included. I am now planning to file to have it included. I was told I need to file a motion. I already have a count date 2 months from now. 

Do anyone have an example and a template of a motion? 
Do anyone have an example of an Affidavits of service.

Do I need any other forms?

Any advise will be great. 






Posted By: persius
Date Posted: 17/May/2014 at 4:49pm
Hi Davids

The information you require can be found in my letter above in bolded text.  Once you contact that office they will mail you the documents you require.  Having said that, if you haven't read my letter then I strongly suggest you do so before making any requests to the government. The information provided tells you exactly what you're about to walk into.  Without a lawyer, you're stepping into a mind field and you won't walk out in one piece.

 


Posted By: davids
Date Posted: 18/May/2014 at 2:19am
Hi,

Thank you for responding. I read your letter and found it very helpful. Thank You for posting. I am planning to contact a lawyer to check things over and review some things but to save money I want to do as much as possible myself. I also have other health issues and ADHD that might be relevant. I know it is a bit of a long shot, but I want to try.  

I contacted the court and it is now all done by email. I emailed them and was given a date but other than that they were not helpful with forms or anything. I did some research and believe this is what I should do ... but I need some direction. If you are not sure of certain things, that is ok, but any advise will be grateful.

Step 1. I am to fill out Form 37A ( motion ). 

For (General heading)
- what do I put here? is there a format I should follow?

When it says, " The (identify moving party) will ... " would that just be my name or some other format?

For the " PROPOSED METHOD OF HEARING" 
- there are a few options, would it be orally or written ? 

THE GROUNDS FOR THE MOTION ARE (specify the grounds to be argued, including a reference to any statutory provision or rule to be relied on).
- I written about 3 pages on why it should be discharge. I could cut it down but should I put it here.

THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE  
- would that just be pay stubs showing my income, health expenses etc, bank records? 
- I can also get a letter from my doctor outlining certain things? Would this be ok.

Under the section ... To (Name and address of responding party’s lawyer or responding party)
- I have two student loans, Federal and Provincial, would I need to put both addresses on the same form? Should I contact them to get the correct address.

Step 2. 

Notify both parties that I am doing this.
- Do I just send a copy of this same motion in register mail? or a separate form?
- where do I sign and where I get a witness to sign, it is not listed on that form?
- do I also send them copies of my DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE like expenses etc

Step 3. 
Complete Affidavit  of service
- do I fill out two forms for each loan? or just one form

Step. 4. 
File my papers with the court and pay the fee


Thank You,
David 






Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 18/May/2014 at 5:50am
If you are low income, perhaps check with your local legal aid clinic. Some universities who have a faculty of law might have a legal aid clinic.


-------------
Administrator

-------------

Mark O'Meara



Posted By: persius
Date Posted: 18/May/2014 at 6:28am
Hi David
 
My advice to you is to not do this alone.  The documentation you received and filled out will not go in your favor if you don't have an attorney representing you. You're simply wasting your time. The moment you set foot in the courtroom you're an open target for the lawyers and judge. If you don't understand the law then you will simply be destroyed where you stand.  I did everything that you did and I got shot in the back by the system.  I understand how important your situation is and I empathize with you 100% but please do not do any of this alone.  Any chance you have of having your loan dismissed will vanish the day you go to court alone. The system is against you unless an attorney takes up your case. 
 
Keep your documents and hand all of them over to a qualified lawyer who specializes in student loans. Do not under any circumstances speak to anybody who contacts you regarding this case unless it's your own attorney because you will most likely get a call from the law office of the attorney who will be challenging you and it's their objective to cut you down before you set foot in the courtroom.  They will most likely try to intimidate you in some way.  They want the money and will do whatever it takes to force it from you!  Keep silent for your own sake. I cannot stress this point enough.  If they try to force any kind of answer from you tell them "I have nothing to say until my legal council advises me".  Keep repeating this to them over and over if you have to. SAY NOTHING!!!  Don't give them the time of day, don't tell them how you're getting to court, don't tell them anything about who your lawyer is or anything else.  If anything, take notes of the questions or statements they are making to you but give them NOTHING. You are dealing with an unethical system that shows no mercy to those who need it most.  This is why I'm stressing this to you so strongly.
 
 


Posted By: davids
Date Posted: 28/May/2014 at 12:40pm
Hi,

Do you know where I can find an example of forms that have been completed? So I can use a guide when completing?

I am getting help, especially when going into court. But to save money I am doing some things myself.

Thank You,
David 





Posted By: persius
Date Posted: 28/May/2014 at 6:51pm
Here is the contact information you need to obtain the forms.
 
Ministry of Attorney General
Court Services Division
London, Ontario
 
Go on Google and perform a search and then call them. 
Tell them you need the proper forms for motion to discharge student loan for original bankruptcy.
 
Good luck.


Posted By: davids
Date Posted: 29/May/2014 at 8:21am

I have the forms,  I just wanted a example of how they are filled out. The courts will not provide an example or answer any questions



Posted By: persius
Date Posted: 29/May/2014 at 3:22pm
As mentioned previously, you are shooting yourself in the head if you do this on your own.  Please go back to my original letter and read it once again.  Everything you need is there. 
I cannot stress strongly enough that you do not fill anything out yourself.  These are legal documents and if anything is missing or out of place you alone will be blamed and held accountable.  Unless you have a lawyer who will fill these documents out on your behalf you're just begging for trouble.  You are not applying for a movie pass here. You are taking legal matters into your own hands and that simply means that the judge will find you guilty within 10 minutes of your name being called and you are not entitled to an appeal. This is a one time opportunity for you so stop playing games.
 
In one of your previous letters you wrote: 
" I am getting help, especially when going into court. But to save money I am doing some things myself ".
You may think that you're saving money but again, this is a legal matter and unless your attorney fills these forms out for you then you have lost your case before it even begins. I can't phrase it any more clearly.  
You asked in your last posting for examples on how to fill these forms out.  I will not provide you or anybody else with suggestions or examples.  The responsibility is 100% yours. 
 
You now have all the information you require and from this point on you alone are accountable for all consequences that will arise if you put pen to paper without a lawyer by your side.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 30/May/2014 at 5:44pm
You can do this without a lawyer. Lawyers are not the end all be all Persius. Even lawyers screw these things up.  All a bankrupt has to do is clearly demonstrate their case.  If it is a weak case then seek an alternate solution. If the case meets the requirements then follow the guideline, which can be obtained by any bankruptcy court.

Hardship with a set of extenuating circumstances that can be clearly demonstrated will usually suffice. Grading case strength is what counts.  So, hardship with extenuating circumstances falls into different categories. One thing is for certain though - you know whether or not you can contribute towards the student loan. If you can, and you have benefited from the education professionally and economically, then you would not be considered, if found to be financially fit to do so.

There are other professionals than lawyers, and certainly more cost benefit/effective solutions. However, if you have money to burn get a lawyer. People who can afford lawyers are looked upon as having an ability to pay because of the higher costs of these retainers.

You can appoint anyone you so choose. If it isn't a lawyer then you can approach the court to ask permission for you and whomever you want there helping you.




-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: davids
Date Posted: 31/May/2014 at 1:48am
Hi Johnny and Thank You. 

If I had 3000$ or more for a lawyer, I would just use to pay down my debt. But I do not. 

If I was certain to win with a lawyer, I would see if I could borrow, but if I lose, I will be in a worse situation. 

I also agree, if I walk in there with a lawyer and then say I can not pay my SL would not look good. 

I did get legal help, I get free legal advise at work. I also have some friends and my doctor read it over and write letters.  If it is prepared properly, I see no issues. I would rather act now and take my chances. I can not afford a lawyer, so I am not shooting myself in the foot. It is the only option I have. 

But if you know of a sample forms (forms alreay filled out) it would be a great help. Thank you.













Posted By: persius
Date Posted: 31/May/2014 at 4:22am

Johnny, you are correct with what you say but have you been through this exact issue yourself?  Are you speaking from personal experience?

You stated the following:
 
All a bankrupt has to do is clearly demonstrate their case.  If it is a weak case then seek an alternate solution. If the case meets the requirements then follow the guideline, which can be obtained by any bankruptcy court.
My case met all of the requirements and beyond and still I was found guilty. As you read this posting I'm making payments on a monthly basis for something that I do not legally owe!  I have LEGAL documents proving I don't owe a penny to anybody but here I am paying it back from money I still don't have.
 
Hardship with a set of extenuating circumstances that can be clearly demonstrated will usually suffice.
As I stood before that judge I was on social assistance and remained so for another year. I was a legal example of a financial hardship case and still the found me guilty.  The court sent me a letter announcing I'm guilty and must pay.  I even had the legal firm that opposed me send me letters demanding payments to begin.  I'm sorry to say but extenuating circumstances are just a term tossed around by lawyers to mislead people.  In fact, I called the claims office and stressed to them that I'm living under financial hardship. The person I spoke with told me that I do not meet the requirement of a financial hardship case because I'm still able to purchase food on my own so therefore I'm exempt from financial hardship entitlements. Wow, I had no idea such a clause existed. Did you?
 
There are other professionals than lawyers, and certainly more cost benefit/effective solutions.
Please feel free to share a few examples. When I needed this information nobody provided any to me even though I spent two years searching for it. In my city there was only one lawyer listed who deals with bankruptcy cases. When I went to meet him for my FREE consultation, he told me "I'm not really sure how that works so if you need me to provide answers you'll have to hire me".  My 30 minute free consultation lasted 7 minutes.
 
I shared my experience based on fact. There was no assumption or guessing involved.  I did everything that you pointed out in your letter and I lost. I'm still paying for it today and will be paying for years to come and to ad insult to injury they are still adding the interest to the outstanding balance.  From my experience, your suggestion does not work.  It  may sound good on paper and it may be based on what the law says but in reality it's just an illusion designed to mislead people. Every year I file my taxes every dollar that should be returned to me is immediately diverted directly to the revenue dept. I haven't seen a tax return in almost 10 years but I do have to pay for each one just to watch my money vanish instantly.
 
This is not a risk worth taking.  That has been my point from the beginning.  It's very easy to dispense advise to people who need it the most but those very people are the ones taking 100% of the risk. When things go wrong, you won't be affected by any of it but they will be.
 

 


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 31/May/2014 at 4:31am
Persius,
It sounds like you went through a really rough time with the courts and the system.  I really wish things had turned out better for you.  There have been some reports on the site here of people being successful in their efforts.  It sounds like you really did a lot of work to try to get this sorted out. If I were in your shoes I'd be pretty p*ssed at the system for its unfairness.  I do appreciate your advice and your posting your experience here as a warning that the legal system can be difficult to navigate. 

A friend recently went to small claims court. The normal judge was off sick and he got some yahoo who didn't follow the regulations and didn't allow his witnesses etc and he lost his case.  The replacement judge apparently was apparently unhappy to be working that day and this was the last case of the day and he wanted to get it over with.  My point being is that the system is filled with humans, some are really nasty and some are quite competent.  

Things obviously went wrong for you.... I hope that somehow you find a solution, and more importantly, your experience is valued here and serves as a warning that it sometimes isn't as easy as people think to declare bankruptcy or get a court order.  

That being said, with experience behind you, would consider a second attempt? Maybe with your experience now you could try a second application?   I know, a bit scary to go through.... but maybe with a different judge and more experience you might have a better experience? 



-------------
Administrator

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Mark O'Meara



Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 01/June/2014 at 4:09am
Persuis, you wrote:

"All a bankrupt has to do is clearly demonstrate their case.  If it is a weak case then seek an alternate solution. If the case meets the requirements then follow the guideline, which can be obtained by any bankruptcy court.
My case met all of the requirements and beyond and still I was found guilty. As you read this posting I'm making payments on a monthly basis for something that I do not legally owe!  I have LEGAL documents proving I don't owe a penny to anybody but here I am paying it back from money I still don't have."

Who determined your case met all the requirements prior to the filing of your motion? If you have physical proof that you don't even owe the student loan but are being forced to pay money that is extortion and criminal. Seriously.

You wrote:

"Hardship with a set of extenuating circumstances that can be clearly demonstrated will usually suffice.
As I stood before that judge I was on social assistance and remained so for another year. I was a legal example of a financial hardship case and still the found me guilty.  The court sent me a letter announcing I'm guilty and must pay.  I even had the legal firm that opposed me send me letters demanding payments to begin.  I'm sorry to say but extenuating circumstances are just a term tossed around by lawyers to mislead people.  In fact, I called the claims office and stressed to them that I'm living under financial hardship. The person I spoke with told me that I do not meet the requirement of a financial hardship case because I'm still able to purchase food on my own so therefore I'm exempt from financial hardship entitlements. Wow, I had no idea such a clause existed. Did you?"

Social assistance is certainly hardship but it is not considered an extenuating circumstance. Unless it is a long-term thing historically.  The gradation process is warped and I definitely agree.  However, you are presenting your case and selling reason why you and  the loan should be discharged.  Social assistance and economic crisis surrounding that is not enough. You have to make these motions very colorful and from the bottom up. 

Another thing you need to steady and control is your emotional output during the hearing. Your attitude and persona can influence things regardless of how "unbiased" they proclaim to be.

To me it sounds like you were not prepared as much as you should have been. This I don't think is your fault. It is the lack of information and understanding of your unique set or sets of circumstances that undermined it. 

What most people don't recognize is that there is a "front and back door" in the post-bankruptcy house.  If a section 178 seems more iffy than not then perhaps it's time to approach the minister of HRSDC and seek out viable solutions.

I have been doing this for near 20 years and I know what works and what doesn't. Lawyers are good at what they do but the risk of cost is the amount of time they take to do this sort of stuff.  If you can have an approach, content, and presentation strategy with tools and materials professionally done for less than the actual cost of your bankruptcy assignment you are doing good.   

You wrote:

"There are other professionals than lawyers, and certainly more cost benefit/effective solutions.
Please feel free to share a few examples. When I needed this information nobody provided any to me even though I spent two years searching for it. In my city there was only one lawyer listed who deals with bankruptcy cases. When I went to meet him for my FREE consultation, he told me "I'm not really sure how that works so if you need me to provide answers you'll have to hire me".  My 30 minute free consultation lasted 7 minutes."

First of all, most lawyers are motivated by money. This is why middle class and just above poverty groups in Canada can not retain legal counsel and get legal help when it is needed. Very few lawyers work on contingency here.  In the US ANYONE can access to legal assistance if there is a case to support it.  Canada Law and justice is expensive and only caters to the wealthy.  If you don't enough money then no one wants to help you.  I don't work that way and the pro bono cases I have taken over the past 12 years show for it. The ones who tried to abuse and exploit it certainly show but that group is very small.

Lastly, I want to revisit the beginning of your post here and say that IF you do NOT owe this money and you have evidence and material supporting this then there is nothing to discharge - nothing to pay.  Having proof of such a thing is a slam-dunk case! The question I have is what proof is it that you have, and if you presented proof you do not even "legally" owe this money then what is being done to you is an injustice and criminal.  Something doesn't add up here.







-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: davids
Date Posted: 02/June/2014 at 11:25am
Hi,

I thank all of your for the valuable feed back. 

One question, on the form for responding party. One one my student loans is with Revenue Canada and the other ( Provincial ) with a Collection agency. I do not have a contact name. If I call just who ever answers helps me. Do I need a contact name or just an address? 

Would anyone know the address for Revenue Canada. The slips they mail me has Employment and skills development. Would I use that address? 

 



Posted By: persius
Date Posted: 02/June/2014 at 3:16pm
I'm not here for a spitting contest. I presented facts based on hard experience. People can believe it or reject it and that's all there is to it. Debating changes nothing.
The only comment I'm going to share is based on what you wrote that what the government did to me is illegal.  You are absolutely right.  Pick up any daily newspaper or watch the news and you will discover numerous stories surrounding provincial or federal politicians which are extremely illegal.  Why do they do it and why do they get away with it?  Because they can!
 
In Ontario the current Liberal government has been caught up in scandal after scandal and no politician has ever been held accountable for anything they did and they never will be because they hide behind a shield of immunity. Charges of corruption cannot be laid against politicians because these same politicians created these laws to protect themselves. If anybody needs to be charged with criminal activity that's the Ontario Liberal Party yet, there is only silence surrounding them.  Even the police commented that charges are applicable to many things the government here has done.  So what, nobody has been charged and nobody will be.
 
I am aware of three people in Ontario who were notified by the revenue dept. claiming that they owe back taxes but facts were never presented.  One individual in particular was told that he owes an additional $5000.00 which he proved to them that he owes nothing. He used his accountant and tax receipts issued by the same government showing he is clean and clear.  Without his knowledge the revenue dept. accessed his bank account and removed just over $15,000.00 citing "we took this money just in case you will end up owing us something in the future".  When he threatened to take them to court they replied openly in a letter "sue us if you want".    This action was highly illegal but that didn't stop them.  When you work for an organization that creates the laws then you automatically insert the loop holes and you exploit them just as the government has been doing for decades.  Go on google and search for other examples such as this one.  Telling a government official that what they are doing or involved in is illegal will only make them laugh at you.  Give it a try and see for yourself.  I did.
 
Do you know why the government doesn't care if you threaten them with legal action?  They have your tax dollars to defend themselves with and an army of attorneys waiting to be deployed who will spin the story and bury you in legal dung.  They know that your money will disappear long before you make any progress with your defense.  They can fight you indefinitely and the ironic thing is that you are paying them to do it through your taxes.  Look at the CBC.  Proven by the press to be involved in illegal behavior and they still manage to take your tax dollars and counter sue the government with it.  Don't preach to me about illegal action. This is standard operating procedure by the government.
 
All of your suggestions and ideas may work in theory but in the real world they do nothing. When the government lines you up in their sites you can fight if you want but it's a losing battle.  Too many people have been cheated out of their money and homes who were innocent of the claims the government filed against them.  There is no way that the government will ever admit to any wrong doing because if they admit to one case then they will have to admit to all of them and that will cost them BILLIONS of dollars in reparations and money is one thing that the government is not willing to part with under any circumstances.  Illegal action is a daily activity with the government and they are not afraid of you by brining it to anybody's attention.
 
As far as I'm concerned, if politicians were held to the same level of accountability as you and I are, most would be in prison right now.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 03/June/2014 at 5:41am
Yes, that is the address for non-tax collections. THere is a Gatineau and Matane, Quebec office.


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: davids
Date Posted: 03/June/2014 at 11:40am

I am in Ontario?




Posted By: davids
Date Posted: 09/September/2014 at 11:00am
Hi,

I won my case!!  Thank you all for your help. I actually did the work myself and represented myself. No one else showed up for the other sides. 

I was lucky and got some free help. But I will recommend Matthew R. Harris 

http://www.matthewrharrislawyer.com/



I can also recommended legal aid at 393 University Ave  Main Floor.

They will not give you any legal advise, but they will let you use the computers and bring up the proper forms to fill out . You can speak with a lawyer and if your lucky, they are familiar with the situation and can give some advsie. 









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