Note: Registration email issue has been resolved.
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - This is What Needs to be Changed!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

This is What Needs to be Changed!

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
administrator View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 25/January/2003
Points: 1770
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: This is What Needs to be Changed!
    Posted: 28/November/2006 at 11:03pm
With a few years of hindsight here's what I think needs changing... More suggestions welcome...


Mark

REVISED DEC 5.

Ombudsperson
An independent ombudsman is needed to intervene and resolve mistakes and disputes and direct the NSLC to reverse interest charges, defaults, and credit rating reports when the NSLC is found to have been at fault.

Interest Rate and Payment Ceiling
The interest rate on student loans is much higher than other loans. In many cases it is not the loan that is causing the default but the exhorbant interest rates being charged on the loan. Some borrowers have paid the full amount of their loan back yet have only reduced their principle by as little as 10%.   A cap should be place on how much interest is to be paid on a loan over a period of time. For example, if a borrower has borrowed $10,000 and has paid back $15,000 then the loan should be forgiven.


Faulty Contract with Service Providers
The contract between HRDC and the NSLC is faulty in that it provides no penalties for errors and does not include incentives for the NSLC to work with debtors to rehabilitate the loan.
A consultants report stated that feedback provided by the Service Providers concerning the current incentive regime indicates that:
•The level of incentives provided under the contract does not make it worthwhile to be pro-active about
rehabilitating accounts, although the penalties are steep enough to ensure some minimum level of effort. The net result is that many accounts are allowed to go far too long without paying, which establishes a pattern of behaviour which is hard to break.
•In general, the incentives are not large enough to encourage performance that goes beyond the basics. Because penalties are high, the tendency is to do just enough to avoid being penalized.

Interest Free Status While In School
Canlearn website incorrectly states that students At the very least the rules should be changed so that if the student exhausts their six/10 years of in school interest free status the student can complete the academic program they are currently enrolled in interest free and in non repayment status. This would allow the student to actually complete their credential and have a hope of repaying their loan.

Lost documentation
Many students are defaulted because the National Student Loan Centre and participating bansk continue to lose students continuation of enrollment forms and Interest Relief applications. The legislation needs to be changed so that the NSLC can no longer use the “student’s responsibility” clause to exonerate them from accountability. In some cases, this clause has been invoked by the NSLC even though documents were sent by registered mail and signed as received with the signature confirmation

Bank Outsourcing
The outsourcing of student loan administration has led to quality of service issues and defaults due to lost documentation. Some students could not get information on who to send payments to.

Credit Reporting

Student Loan Credit reporting has failed as an incentive to pay student loans. Due to NSLC and bank errors, it has actually forced some students out of school because they have been denied funding due to incorrectly reported defaults.

Even if an error is admitted, it is virtually impossible for a borrower to have incorrect student loan information removed from the credit report. Damage to one’s credit rating is instantaneous. There should be process to dispute credit reporting information and have it temporarily removed until the matter is investigated.

Furthermore, the negative credit reporting actually inhibits the repayment of loans as graduates are unable to obtain funds to start a business, obtain credit for an automobile when required for work, or obtain accommodation due to credit checks. The negative reporting stays on file for six years after the last date of activity, meaning that if a student takes 10 years to pay off their loan, they will have a negative credit rating for another six years after paying off the loan. This is too harsh a penalty for defaulting.

The current credit reporting system has no method of reporting a rehabilitated loan under the provisions of the CSLP Program. If a loan is rehabilitated it still shows as in default on the credit bureau.

Paying off one’s student loan should be considered a positive, not a negative. Paying an outstanding defaulted loan results in a negative report that stays on for six years after the last payment. Once the student loan has been paid off, negative credit reporting should be removed. Current reporting practices act as a disincentive to paying the loan.

Educational Institution Fraud
While there are penalties for a student making fraudulent claims with respect to a student loan application, there are no penalties for educational institutions (public or private) who make false claims about the length of a program or the prospects of jobs upon graduation. Postings on Canadastudentdebt.ca regularly refer to false hopes given by public and private institutions about job prospects, and in some cases, students were misled about the length of the program. While such statements meet the criteria for a fraud investigation, such matters are left to the civil legal efforts of the student as Industry Canada, HRDC and other departments have stated that it is not their jurisdiction. Legal costs to initiate begin at about $40,000. Educational institutions should be help accountable for their advertising and suggestion that jobs await graduates.

Private Institution Bankruptcy
Numerous postings on Canadastudentdebt.ca report the bankruptcy of a private institution, sometimes just days or weeks after collection their tuition. While the school administrators and owners have their assets protected, and their liabilities absolved by the Bankruptcy Act, students are left holding loans without any education for their debt. There needs to be a change in consumer protection laws, and a change to the bankruptcy act to help these students, and/or new debt reduction regulations so that students do not shoulder the debt of a failed private business.

Planning is Impossible
The regulations in place when you start your education will not be the regulations in place the following year or when you graduate. Students who carefully plan the financing of their education will almost always find their planning frustrated by government rule changes and cuts to education funding by both provincial and federal bureaucrats who do not understand the implications of their decisions. For example, a single mother who enrolled in a 4 year program, carefully worked out her part time savings, costs, grants and loans. She would have graduated with a loan of $15,000, however with provincial grant cuts, which triggered the loss of her matched federal grant, she will graduate with additional loans of $18,000 ($3000 grant provincial and lost federal matching grant times 3 years)

Interest Relief
Net income is a better and fairer measure of a borrower’s ability to pay. There should be provisions for exceptional expenses such as medical expenses or re-training   There should also be graduated interest relief. This would reduce defaults and help the program meet its targets. Currently, Interest Relief is run on an “all or nothing” model. Providing levels of 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% would provide much needed assistance and reduce default rates.


Statements of Payments and Interest and Balance
No statements of account are available to borrowers. Some borrowers have had to file freedom of information request to get any kind of information on how a balance was calculated. The banks can not provide statements because they don’t have the data, especially if a file has been passed from one collection agency to another. It seems the student loan system has no historical data about a borrower’s payments and interest charges. Statements should be available to borrowers upon request.

Ten Year Bankruptcy Rule
This rule should be removed as it harms those most in need of assistance. The purpose of the bankruptcy act is to give people a fresh start. The student loan regulations go against the very nature of the bankruptcy act.

Tax Seizures
Tax seizures should be applied against the loan principle, not interest. This way the borrower will obtain some relief, as the principle will be reduced.

Disability
Disability relief is only available if the disability occurred within the first 6 months after graduating. This is an absurd rule that needs to change. Disabled people’s mental health is worn down by dealing with HRDC, the NSLC, and collection agencies.

Eligibility for Programs
As stated in research, those in default are most in need. Being in default should not eliminate a borrower from assistance. Often it is a NSLC error or slowness in processing applications that resulted in the default,

Collection Harassment
Student loan debtors are in a different category than credit card debtors. Most want to pay but the abusive nature of these collectors. The abuse stories seem to come mostly from women. The abuse has to stop! Taking out a student loan and being in default does not give a collector the right to be manipulative, insulting and abusive. HRDC has lost control of its collection agencies who abuse borrowers. without any fear of recrimination.

Since Contact Point for All Loans
With the changes in programs (government and banks, national student loan centre and provincial counterparts) defaulted borrowers may face calls from up to four different collection agencies. After negotiating with a collection agency, the borrower may not know that there is still another outstanding portion that another collection agency will try to collect on. All of this makes the repayment process completely unmanageable and out of frustration many debtors simply give up trying to work with the system. Proactive defaulters who want to pay their loans call HRDC to find out who has the loan but get a response “please wait a few months and they will call you.”

Recalling Loans from Collections
There should be a provision for loans to be recalled from a collection agency back to the NSLC if the borrower has rehabilitated the loan or if it can be shown that an error was made. In is in the interest of the collection agency to keep the file to earn commission and therefore the agency is in a position of conflict of interest in rehabilitating loans. As described above, with up to four different collection agencies involved, it is impossible for the borrower to successfully co-ordinate and initiate such a request for the return of the file to the NSLC.


Bank Errors.
Banks refuse to accept accountability for errors, telling the borrower that they must deal with the collection agency. The collection agency in turn tells

HRDC Incompetence
On a number of occasions it has been pointed out to HRDC and reported in the media, that HRDC does not know or follow HRDC’s own rules and regulatons.

Exceptional Expenses Program.
This is a Debt Reduction Program available but HRDC does not list it on its website nor provide any information about it to borrowers.

Monthly verse Weekly Pay.
Few if any people are paid on a monthly basis. Interest Relief and debt reduction criteria should be changed to reflect economic realities. The current system discrimates against those applying in a 3 pay month, as the interest relief calculations to monthly income distort the income. The same applicants would qualify if the applied the following month,

Default Agreements
Collection agencies do not honor negotiated agreements. Borrowers who reach a repayment agreement with collection agencies find themselves being harassed a few weeks after they have sent postdated cheques because a new collector tries to get a higher commission through larger payments. This frustrates the borrower as the cycle of harassment begins again even though the borrower has done everything within their power to meet their loan obligations.

Increase the number of eligible weeks for some programs
Borrowers may find themselves in repayment even if still in school, particularly those in masters or doctoral degree. The intention of the Student Loan Program was to make sure students don’t have to pay back their loans while in school. The reduction of eligibility has forced some students to drop out of school.

International Restrictions
We are in a global economy. The restriction on remaining in Canada to obtain interest relief restricts borrowers from international education, co-op placements, and international aid service.



Administrator

-------------

Mark O'Meara

Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
momof2 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 15/August/2004
Location: Canada
Points: 792
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote momof2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/November/2006 at 2:12pm

income contingent repayment would be a nice addition - but make it automatic with revenue canada so no paperwork gets lost.  hey they can do it with CCTB and GST, why not loan stuff ??

definately an interest cap and a preferred interest rate also.  how about 3% flat rate so if you borrow 10 you owe 13, no additional penalties, no headaches, no commissions to collections agencies, that's it.

also, instead of having to apply for  bankruptcy - why not change the structure of the loans system so that if you can't work/have zero or close to no income for 10 years/are underemployed/receive any government supplements at all your loan is forgiven.

if you start working and make decent wages ie 40K/yearly - they you repay part of your loans but with no more interest, no penalties and no one calling your house demanding money.  make it a payroll deduction.

 

just a few thoughts...

professionals built the titanic but amateurs built the ark...
Back to Top
jrmevans View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 29/April/2005
Location: Canada
Points: 25
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jrmevans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/November/2006 at 10:40am
I like those options MOM... especially the payroll, the government can deduct fed tax a cpp and employment insurance, why can't they set it up so that when you sign on, if you have student loans, you fill out your forms when you start, and it goes to the government, and an amount is deducted from your paycheck ... you don't ever see it, and you make things work with what you actually get on your paycheck... i'd be 100% in favor of this ... 
Back to Top
administrator View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 25/January/2003
Points: 1770
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/December/2006 at 4:42am
This is what I've added as a revision...

Credit Reporting

Student Loan Credit reporting has failed as an incentive to pay student loans. Due to NSLC and bank errors, it has actually forced some students out of school because they have been denied funding due to incorrectly reported defaults.

Even if an error is admitted, it is virtually impossible for a borrower to have incorrect student loan information removed from the credit report. Damage to one’s credit rating is instantaneous. There should be process to dispute credit reporting information and have it temporarily removed until the matter is investigated.

Furthermore, the negative credit reporting actually inhibits the repayment of loans as graduates are unable to obtain funds to start a business, obtain credit for an automobile when required for work, or obtain accommodation due to credit checks. The negative reporting stays on file for six years after the last date of activity, meaning that if a student takes 10 years to pay off their loan, they will have a negative credit rating for another six years after paying off the loan. This is too harsh a penalty for defaulting.

The current credit reporting system has no method of reporting a rehabilitated loan under the provisions of the CSLP Program. If a loan is rehabilitated it still shows as in default on the credit bureau.

Paying off one’s student loan should be considered a positive, not a negative. Paying an outstanding defaulted loan results in a negative report that stays on for six years after the last payment. Once the student loan has been paid off, negative credit reporting should be removed. Current reporting practices act as a disincentive to paying the loan.

Educational Institution Fraud
While there are penalties for a student making fraudulent claims with respect to a student loan application, there are no penalties for educational institutions (public or private) who make false claims about the length of a program or the prospects of jobs upon graduation. Postings on Canadastudentdebt.ca regularly refer to false hopes given by public and private institutions about job prospects, and in some cases, students were misled about the length of the program. While such statements meet the criteria for a fraud investigation, such matters are left to the civil legal efforts of the student as Industry Canada, HRDC and other departments have stated that it is not their jurisdiction. Legal costs to initiate begin at about $40,000. Educational institutions should be held accountable for their advertising and suggestion that jobs await graduates.

Private Institution Bankruptcy
Numerous postings on Canadastudentdebt.ca report the bankruptcy of a private institution, sometimes just days or weeks after collection their tuition. While the school administrators and owners have their assets protected, and their liabilities absolved by the Bankruptcy Act, students are left holding loans without any education for their debt. There needs to be a change in consumer protection laws, and a change to the bankruptcy act to help these students, and/or new debt reduction regulations so that students do not shoulder the debt of a failed private business.

Planning is Impossible
The regulations in place when you start your education will not be the regulations in place the following year or when you graduate. Students who carefully plan the financing of their education will almost always find their planning frustrated by government rule changes and cuts to education funding by both provincial and federal bureaucrats who do not understand the implications of their decisions. For example, a single mother who enrolled in a 4 year program, carefully worked out her part time savings, costs, grants and loans. She would have graduated with a loan of $15,000, however with provincial grant cuts, which triggered the loss of her matched federal grant, she will graduate with additional loans of $18,000 ($3000 grant provincial and lost federal matching grant times 3 years)

Administrator

-------------

Mark O'Meara

Back to Top
frustrated-guy View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 10/May/2004
Points: 212
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frustrated-guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/December/2006 at 9:18am

Hi Mark,

It would be great if you can add the interest-free while at school issue to your excellent summary from Interest-free while at school (see posting in this forum). 

 At the very least the rules should be changed so that If the student exhausts their six/10 years of in school interest free status while in school the student can complete the academic program they are currently enrolled in interest free non repayment status (but would not be offered interest-free status if the student began a new program after exhausting the interest free limit).   This would allow the student to actually complete their credential and have a hope of repaying their loan.

Back to Top
albertagirl View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 20/June/2007
Location: Canada
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albertagirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20/June/2007 at 10:46pm
To whom do I request permission to reprint this in every single media available to me and my union sisterhood?
There is hope! Keep the faith, believe in yourself, and most importantly, when you are threatened, remind yourself that YOU DO HAVE RIGHTS, and that NO ONE can take those away. NEVER AGAIN.
Back to Top
administrator View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 25/January/2003
Points: 1770
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/June/2007 at 12:46pm
You would ask me... and I wholeheartedly give you permission to reprint this!
Administrator

-------------

Mark O'Meara

Back to Top
albertagirl View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 20/June/2007
Location: Canada
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albertagirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/June/2007 at 11:58am
Hello!!
 
There are some errors and ommissions I found in this document; for example, under bank errors, it just drops off. There is also no ending or conclusion stating demands. I would add it myself, but since I am not the original author, I don't feel it's my place.
 
The reason I am asking this is, is I plan to swarm every Albertan MLA, and every MP in the Commons, with letters until I get the response every student loan borrowers deserves, including changes to the Canada Student Loan Act.
 
I should stress that I do believe that if you borrow money for any reason, whether it be a car loan, mortgage, or an education, you are under an obligation to pay it back. You are receiving money to purchase a tangible product, like a vehicle, home, or knowledge, and you have every right to be treated like a human being when you start making repayments.
 
I also find it incredibly odd that the SL Lenders lose payments and information all the time, and yet it is the responsibility of the borrower to prove it. When my bank "lost" a payment on my truck loan, they bent over backwards (litterally) to fix it, once it was brought to their attention by myself. When the company that provides my security monitoring didn't receive a payment back in February, their collections department was so kind to me I burst into tears (I still can't find out why the payment didn't go through from either them, or my credit card) but she told me not to worry (I know, hard to believe), that if I like, she can retry my credit card to get the payment through. Thankfully it did, but the point is, is that there ARE kind people out there, just doing their job.
 
Back onto this though. . .
 
Like I said in my previous post, I plan to mobilize the union sisterhood, of which collectively, we owe millions of dollars in student loans I'm sure. Imagine the shock coming to our MLA's and MP's when they start getting THOUSANDS of letters demanding the same thing, in addition to getting this VOCALLY into the media, which I also plan on doing.
 
So if I could get you to maybe go over the post with a fine tooth comb, cross the t's and dot the lower case j's, and then repost it, I'll do the rest.
 
Never piss off the sisterhood!!! Here we come!!!!
 
albertagirl
There is hope! Keep the faith, believe in yourself, and most importantly, when you are threatened, remind yourself that YOU DO HAVE RIGHTS, and that NO ONE can take those away. NEVER AGAIN.
Back to Top
Johnny View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2003
Location: Canada
Points: 5922
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/June/2007 at 2:06pm
"I also find it incredibly odd that the SL Lenders lose payments and information all the time, ..."
 
It is the worst of inconvenience for the borrower because it is not something that the borrower can see coming, or detect until it is too late. However, there is a serious pattern that illustrates that it is very convenient for the private student loan lending sector to behave this way simply because of the high number of defaults in Canada. THe default rate could very well be higher than 25% - and if so, this is not normal.
 
The problem is 1) cost of education, and 2) the systems failure to understand the assets and not knowing how to properly manage them.
 
If there is anything I can do to help you and the cause, let me know. Way to go, sister. You preach. I will turn the pages.
 
Johnny
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
Back to Top
albertagirl View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 20/June/2007
Location: Canada
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albertagirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/June/2007 at 10:51pm
"The problem is 1) cost of education. . ."
 
I agree and disagree on this statement. I feel tuition isn't high enough to attract the best students, and it certainly isn't high enough for the university's to be able to recruit the best in research brains. But that is another forum, and though I already wrote it all out, it came out sounding more like a political platform for the Separatist Party of Alberta, of which I am a firm believer. Having said that, I do believe that there should alot more in the budget for students who graduate, to be able to give them a very nice chuck of change in remission and loan forgiveness. Think of it as a grad gift from the powers that be. . .
 
Having said that blast, I'll get back to the original post.
 
Mr. Johnny, there are a few things I could use from you:
 
Could you whip up a page or two of validated complaints against the system? References, etc.
DEMANDS as to the changes we as a collective (being student loan borrowers) want to see NOW, not when everyone has to file bankruptcy.
ANYTHING else you would like your MP, MLA, MPP, to know regarding this issue. And believe me, it WILL be known.
The names and contact info for every single major media outlet in your city of residence.
I think that's all.  I am on vacation in August, and now I know what I will be doing . . . LOBBYING FOR CHANGE!!!!!!!! Maybe even on Parliament Hill???
 
How will you get this to me? posting it on here for all?? I would prefer to take your info, format it my way, and then repost it, or maybe you could mail it to me? I feel an urgency for this, so maybe this is the way?
 
Regardless, I've rambled enough.
 
till next time, stay young, stay in touch with your mommy, brush your teeth, and remember, pissing off a sisterhood is like putting a target on your chest!
 
albertagirl
There is hope! Keep the faith, believe in yourself, and most importantly, when you are threatened, remind yourself that YOU DO HAVE RIGHTS, and that NO ONE can take those away. NEVER AGAIN.
Back to Top
Buff View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 15/July/2005
Points: 150
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/June/2007 at 9:32am
Originally posted by albertagirl albertagirl wrote:

"The problem is 1) cost of education. . ."
 
I agree and disagree on this statement. I feel tuition isn't high enough to attract the best students, and it certainly isn't high enough for the university's to be able to recruit the best in research brains.
 
You're right about tuition not being high enough to attract the best students. It's TOO high to attract them. Often the best students are not from rich families. They're middle class and lower. High tuition drives them away, no matter how badly they might want to be a student at that particular school. I've seen quite a few rich kids who feel a university education is something they're entitled to, not something they have to earn.
 
The problem with high tuition (aside from higher debt loads and higher default rates after grad) is that as tuition gets higher, less deserving students can go to school. Post-secondary education becomes more of a thing for people whose parents can afford to send them, not for students who really want to go. Scholarships are great, but there aren't nearly enough to go around for students who can't afford school, but are the ones most likely to work hard and do great things with their education.
 
The ability for a university to recruit the best in research brains isn't all that and then some like people think either. Schools want the researchers so they can bring grants and other money into the school. Students aren't the school's first priority. Profs research first and teach second, if at all. I haven't seen too many first and second year courses taught by the prof. They're all done by TA, especially anything early in the morning.
 
I think university is losing its value. People go because mommy and daddy send them. They go because they need a degree for all but the lowest-paying jobs like McDonalds. If that's the case and everyone has one, it's not quite the accomplishment that it used to be. Schools are turning into degree factories.
 
When I was in high school, my parents drilled into me that university was the only way to go. No college, no taking time off to work for a few years, no nothing. University was the only option and, by the way kid, you're paying for it. I took 3 years off, then went to college.
 
I just finished 4 years teaching in the public education system (2 years secondary, 2 in a cegep), so I know it's changing a lot, and usually not for the better. I can't stand people lumping all post-secondary together and trashing it, but I almost always agree with those who criticize universities and the way they go about their business.
 
Buff
Back to Top
Johnny View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2003
Location: Canada
Points: 5922
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/June/2007 at 2:32pm
Ya hit it right on, Buff. The best student is defined as the one who wants to take the initiative, learn, and better their life through the process of education - rich or poor- it doesn't matter. The student loan system in Canada is therre to lend money and do it's best to manage the assets and investyments. THose who are not rich suffer because they do not have the ability to pay back. This directly relates the cost of education, which we discussed so many times int he past.
 
If the cost was not so high, EVERYONE could afford to go to school and poterntially better their lives. It's not rocket science.
 
So, what needs to change? 1) The cost of education in Canada because it is absolutely attrocious. 2) The student loan service providers need to do be more equipped with problem solving tools and asset management skills, and 3) 21st century focus within the educational system rather than the current 18th century one.
 
Johnny
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
Back to Top
old hippy View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 20/August/2005
Location: Canada
Points: 195
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote old hippy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/June/2007 at 5:35pm

Hello alberta,

I'm having a few concerns but maybe I've been misunderstanding your past few posts...which were very energetic and positive by the way.  Didn't Julian a.k.a. pogo and Mark and maybe a few others I'm not sure, get together and go over all these points and put together the 8 point plan, creating the Coalition for Student Loan Fairness?  Which brought me to tears the other day when I read through the posts.  There are many NDP MP's signing our petition as well and I think a lot of work has been done with more to come.  I trust these people because I've been a member of this site for a few years and I'm grateful for all they've done.
 
Of course, the more support the better...But I am very cautious about who speaks for me.  Parliament Hill would be a cool place to bring our student loan issues, but not if they become part of someone's political agenda... you mentioned the Separatist Party of Alberta.
 
Who do you mean by the union sisterhood?  It's probably all good but can't all those thousands of supporters that you say you have, or will have, be pointed in the Coalition's direction?  My concern is that you may have a hidden agenda, and other issues besides student loans....
 
 
hippy
 
 
 
Back to Top
polyhymnia61 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/January/2003
Location: Netherlands
Points: 915
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote polyhymnia61 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/June/2007 at 1:58am
My 20-year-old son is presently working in retail full-time because he can't afford university. I raised him on my own while attending university with no help from his father who still owes him over $30,000 in back child support...
 
He saw what I went though and is scared to death of wrecking his future because of a sick student loan system.
 
This kid was one of the smartest in his class all through French immersion school. He took and passed with high marks IB classes in high school.
 
Now he sells shoes to pay the rent.
 
How will raising tuition fees help him, Alberta Girl?
Home is where you are allowed to prosper.
Back to Top
Johnny View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 05/November/2003
Location: Canada
Points: 5922
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/June/2007 at 6:22am
Very good point, Hippy.
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

solvestudentdebt.com
Back to Top
albertagirl View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 20/June/2007
Location: Canada
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albertagirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/June/2007 at 5:04pm
Apparently no one read the part that said there should be MORE money allocated in the budget for remission and other debt reduction when the students graduate. More remission money means less debt for the grad.
 
I have no hidden agenda; I have student loans totalling over 13,000$ myself... even though I have been sent to collections more often that I can count, threatened by numerous collections agents who have promised to call my employer (who were then informed that I would file charges with the RCMP for violating privacy laws), etc. etc. etc. For every threat they gave me, I threatened them right back.
 
Buff you said, "When I was in high school, my parents drilled into me that university was the only way to go. No college, no taking time off to work for a few years, no nothing. University was the only option and, by the way kid, you're paying for it. . ." which proves my point that some individuals go for the sake of going.
 
I said raise tuition to recruit the best minds (both students and professors who do research), which means more work, which means more money, which means more grants available to encourage more brains, and for those brains to VALUE what they are going for. . .an education.
 
I also said that upon graduation there should be more money for remission. Doing this (rasing tuition) would allow for this.
 
As for the union sisterhood, I am a unionized machine operator in Union un-friendly Alberta. My degree is in business. I took a job to survive, and quite frankly, went to university because it was expected of me. I should have made the people that expected it from me to pay for it, but whatever; as a young adult, i wanted to make my mom proud. And she is. But the debt is mine, and it'll get paid off eventually.
 
I have my contacts within other locals, and they have contacts within their locals, and so on and so forth; if you spiderweb it out, there's thousands. And don't forget, Alberta is very anti-union, and some of these employees are scared to death of losing their jobs in our red hot economy if they start yelling for justice, but are willing to add their voice if someone else starts the yelling. Which is what I plan to do. And I have never ever heard of an 8 point plan, is it on this site? Regardless, if you could point it out for me, that'd be great.
 
As for you polyhymnia61, if your kid graduated with top marks in IB classes, his university tuition should have been paid for. I don't know of one single IB grad from my high school that didn't recieve full, if not almost full scholarships. As for his dead beat dad, why haven't you pursued him for child support? There is legal aid (and they have been a blessing to me whenever I was sent to collections). Where abouts are you located? I am only familiar with Alberta.
 
Look, my opinion is as valid as any of yours. I'm not trying to hurt feelings. I'm trying to express my POV. I am active in whatever I take part in; justice in this country is for the criminals, not the victims, which is why I am also active in politics, or at least try to be informed of every party's platform.
 
Sorry if some of you were offended or hurt. I'll try to be more articulate the next time I post a (potentially) controversial topic.
 
albertagirl
There is hope! Keep the faith, believe in yourself, and most importantly, when you are threatened, remind yourself that YOU DO HAVE RIGHTS, and that NO ONE can take those away. NEVER AGAIN.
Back to Top
albertagirl View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 20/June/2007
Location: Canada
Points: 9
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albertagirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/June/2007 at 5:06pm
I am not sure of this. It could be there is one, but I have only just found this site about a week ago, and only because there was an article in the Edmonton Sun.
 
 
There is hope! Keep the faith, believe in yourself, and most importantly, when you are threatened, remind yourself that YOU DO HAVE RIGHTS, and that NO ONE can take those away. NEVER AGAIN.
Back to Top
polyhymnia61 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/January/2003
Location: Netherlands
Points: 915
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote polyhymnia61 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/June/2007 at 7:25am
Originally posted by albertagirl albertagirl wrote:

As for you polyhymnia61, if your kid graduated with top marks in IB classes, his university tuition should have been paid for. I don't know of one single IB grad from my high school that didn't recieve full, if not almost full scholarships. As for his dead beat dad, why haven't you pursued him for child support? There is legal aid (and they have been a blessing to me whenever I was sent to collections). Where abouts are you located? I am only familiar with Alberta.
 
I said that he took IB courses; he did not finish the IB program because he found it restricting in course choices. I was illustrating the point that he had the potential to succeed at university. Scholarships are not guaranteed.
 
And how do you know I haven't pursued his father? Just because one pursues does not mean one gets money. We have the Support and Custody Enforcement Program in Ontario. The file is active.
Home is where you are allowed to prosper.
Back to Top
Buff View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 15/July/2005
Points: 150
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/June/2007 at 12:57pm
Yes Albertagirl, some people go to university just for the sake of going. We agree on that point, but that's where the agreement ends.
 
Money does not make a good student, though good students need money to go to school.
 
I stand by my statment that raising tuition does not raise the quality of students who go to that particular school, unless of course, you link quality to quantity, as in the quantity of money in the family's bank account.
 
If that's the case, I guess I was a pretty bad student. After all, I ended up with $18,000 in student loans, the OSAP max at the time. That amount isn't much overall, especially compared to some of what's written on this site, but for 2 years of community college, it's absolutely ridiculous.
 
Nonetheless, this "bad" student went to school, worked hard (25 hours of class, plus 30-40 hours of homework and group projects each week), made the dean's list both years, worked part-time and proudly graduated on time.
 
You mentioned more money for remission and debt reduction. Good ideas, but it shouldn't have to come to that. Why not reduce the amount the students are paying in the first place? It doesn't make sense to set aside money to pay for problems later when it could be used to avoid the problems in the first place. 
 
Buff
Back to Top
old hippy View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 20/August/2005
Location: Canada
Points: 195
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote old hippy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/June/2007 at 1:13pm
Alberta Girl,
 
Here's the link to the Coalition for Student Loan Fairness petition with the 8 point plan for student loan reform:
 
 
The links to the petition and the Coalition for Student Loan Fairness are both on this site.  Upper right hand corner "SIGN THE ONLINE PETITION!"  You can't miss it....
 
If you read through some of the threads you'll see how it evolved.  An MP from my neck of the woods in Ontario has just signed and I am SO HAPPY!!!!!!
 
 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.08
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.